I think that goes for pretty much everything
After the big drift from 552 weak link and poor 252 , maybe some will post about 332/ 300 vs 552 or 500 dr vs 350.
There are so many high end hifi shops in UK , I am surprised that little do the 500 vs 300 show comparison. Or they fear perhaps to loose sells on the 500 series, if some post after that the 300 series are more enjoyable ?
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The entire DartZeel range was updated to MK2 version about 3 years ago - the new versions were massively updated.
According to the designer the CTH-8550 stands for 85% of the performance for 50% of the cost ie 8550.
Quite honestly I could have happily stayed with the integrated
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Greg,
You mention above that when you compared the DartZeel CTH-8550 to a Naim 552/500 you preferred the sound of the DartZeel which obviously is fair enough. You then go on to say that the 552 was the bottleneck. When doing the audition what made you conclude it was the 552 and not the 500 that was the weak link in the chain? Surely to establish the 552 is a bottleneck you need to try different similarly priced preamps with the 500 and conclude that the 500 has more to offer with a different preamp!
Just canāt follow the logic on this one!
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I did not audition the 552/500 - I own them and have for the past 18 years (currently DRād)
Since purchasing the dCS (back in 2020) I have anyways run it through the 552 into the 500.
After other 500 system users on the dCS forum started experimenting I was sent a configured cable which allowed me to connect the dCS directly into the XLR inputs of the 500.
Net result - more music, more detail, more everything
Later - slot the 552 back in and listen again. Less music, less details, less everything.
What does not compute?
Best
Gregg
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i know this has nothing to do with 300 series vs 500, i mean i dont know why the two are even being compared, two completely different things.
I remember when this forum was all about getting advice on stacking order, cable dressing and people wondering what the next upgrade will bring.
At the moment its like new classic is a different brand vs classic with people saying daft things regarding the new stuffā¦for example, nc250 is better than 300dr and worse than 500dr, nc350 is better than 300dr and worse than 500dr, read this loads of times, makes no sense at all and if it did just buy the 250 because the new 350 are almost the same (of course i dont need anyone to add to this, repeat anything etc)
New new classic folks are of course very happy with the new stuff but are their burndies massaged, thats what i wanna know?
the reason i love the naim brand and products is because of how it makes me feel, the way it plays music when its set up right. its like nothing elseā¦its world class hifi as they used to say
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Yes, I am aware you owned the 552/500.
Right so as a separate experiment you tried your DCS system without a preamp and preferred it but still found something ālackingā. This prompted you to audition Dartzeel amps and as they say the rest is history.
So I as I originally thought the DCS digital preamp works excellently straight into a power amp (as also stated by Dunc) and you prefer Dartzeel amps to Naim amps. Thatās fair enough.
Just interested as to whether anyone has actually heard a standalone preamp at a similar price to a 552 which works better than the 552 into a 500 poweramp. You havenāt so I will leave it there.
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I did not say I prefer DartZeel amps to Naim amps (although I did say I preferred my Naim 500DR amp to a DāAgostino S250MxV amp when used direct from my dCS Rossini).
What I said is I preferred a DartZeel preamp + DarTZeel power amp (in my particular demo case in the form of a DartZeel integrated) to my Naim 552 preamp + Naim 500 amp. A proper pre/amp combination. I did not demo using just a DartZeel amp alone (as I did at home with a DāAgostino)
It seems semantic however I prefer complete accuracy in what I post
Best
Gregg
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I think you will find most feel the natural partner for a 500 amp will be a 552 preamp. I have not run into people using any other brand preamp into the 500.
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Thanks for making that clear.
Anyway best I leave it there. Just as well french rooster is happy with a bit of thread drift!
Cheers!
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Good try FR, and good luck with that!
As you have put the word ādriftingā in you topic, some folk think they can talk about anything they like.
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Having had a few hours demo of the Dart Zeel integrated I would not even pick it over a 52/135 system let alone a 500 series system.
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The 252 is a fine preamp. I think some people are running away with these comments. Yes with the 250.2 is a little slow sounding and that Naim edge of seat performance is lacking but if thatās the only high end system I had to live with, I would not complain. I did prefer the 52/135 more for its sheer excitement.
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I found wonderful synergy with 252, 300 NDS - there are points where I think I should have stopped there and just focused on enjoying the music.
Iām not familiar with DarTZeel sound wise but not sure I would want a red and gold audio system in my house!
Gary
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No problem with that Nigel. It doesnāt really bother me. Itās just that it would be interesting to see some listening experiences too.
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I think it is (an unfortunate) part of human nature to want to persuade others of the ātruthā as it has been revealed to us. Let he (or she) who is free of confirmation bias be the first to throw a stone.
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I thought I was wrong once. But, I was mistaken 
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Fine so equally you might have preferred a different power amp with the dCS. Therefore the 552 is most certainly not the weak link in the 500 system in fact many think the opposite. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but letās make sure that the difference between opinion and fact are recognised.
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I am curious as to how you consider someone finding another power amp preferable to the 500 as well as finding other preamp better than 552, proves that 552 is not the weakest of the two, which is what you seem to suggest? A lot would depend on what and how much difference was evident with one compared to the other.
With power amp much would of course depend on the speakers.
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Indeed, which is why every time Iāve heard Statement Iāve found it to be slightly sterile which I imagine is possibly down to the Focal speakers, but that doesnāt mean that Statement, or Focal for that matter, is flawed. Iām just saying that the dCS with a different power amp some might equally think that itās ābetterā than the 500. But as far as the 552 goes which Iāve heard numerous times with 155/250/300/500, is in my view quite excellent in its presentation. Might it be improved upon? Of course it might, but equally so might the ND555/500. But just because a couple of users who have removed it from their dCS/500 configuration prefer the presentation that way find it an improvement doesnāt make it the āweak linkā at least not as a matter of fact.
On that Iām off to listen R3 on my totally inadequate Nat/05/252/300 
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