I love the speakers and I have NO issue with the sound of them other than something I lost between the demo room which was for clarity the same as my set up (except for a 252 not a 282). I love the B&W character yes - I have had MANY speakers over the years from NEAT ultimatums, to Ruark CLs, to PMCs and others… I have landed on B&W as my faves.
I didn’t buy the speakers thinking it would all be perfect BUT I did demo the set up as I have it in store it is just V different at home - big lesson there for me. We all live and learn.
I am looking at three things given the is forum feedback - 1. look at room set up and treatment I have a BIG room compared to Demo Room. 2. consider power supply on the NDX2 although the B&W dude said that wouldn’t give as much as 3. look at amplification and they recommended some options.
Thanks for the input and thanks for understanding what I am asking.
IB – nobody on this thread, or the previous thread raised by the OP (pretty much the same discussion!), has stated the 300 is a huge issue in the context of the discussion here. The report from the OP is one of lacking bass, for whatever reason and, if you read the previous thread, their own admission (post some views from a dealer) that the 300 is de facto underpowered to get the best from these B&Ws. But, it’s a tad challenging to understand if some sort of validation and/or confirmation is being sought here?
Like others, I’m a tad confused – as the position is pretty clear to me. And as @edanmars has posted, if you want to max-out these 'speakers and replay, the room is the place to start.
Yeah again the B&W technical dude mentioned those mono blocks. I tried them in store and they were an improvement on the 300 deffo. The challenge is I do like the Naim sound.
I’m going to come at this from a slightly different angle. What I think you are describing is a lack of bass control and articulation and I would suggest that few ported speakers (which the 803D4 are) have the level of articulation I seek from a loudspeaker. I haven’t found B&W to excel in this area at all, so in fact given you are using a NAP300DR which is a pretty beefy amplifier in terms of current delivery, I’m inclined to point the finger at the B&W’s and their interaction with the room. Room treatment and repositioning may be the answer here, or at worst trying some different loudspeakers in the room.
To me B&W are ‘hi-fi’ whereas Naim are much more geared to transparency, emotion, dynamics, speed and impact. In my view you are mixing two competing ideologies here and something like ATC, PMC, Dynaudio or Neat may be a better match for Naim. I can certainly vouch for the fact that the NAP300DR with ATC SCM40 and SCM50 are a superb combination.
Thanks - I am looking for validation that the assumptions I am making are true and there is a whole load of richness in this thread that wasn’t there before and also a months home use.
For clarity after the last thread I went and Demoed them and in store in that room the 300DR drove them totally to my satisfaction, actually I was mesmerised by them. That’s why I bought them.
Now I am looking to tweak my set up to see if I can rebalance is all and there is loads of good advice here.
The B&W guy mentioned he knew a few who liked them bi-amped with 135s… I actually have a 250 DR in the cupboard. I heard somewhere that you could use a 250 for the bass and the 300 form mid treble… I only mention this as I could try it and see… How might I do it?
If you loved them Lamby then that’s a good sign, it’s also very likely that the dealer’s demo room employed room treatments and that would be a fairly cheap fix actually - certainly a whole lot cheaper than changing speakers or changing amps…
You may have read what I wrote above; you need a better source and preamp - and in your own words you have shown the practical implication of that.
Years ago I had a CDS2 with a 102, Hicap and 180, with some Naim IBLs. I asked the dealer whether to get an 82 or 250 first - knowing that the IBLs really benefit from a 250. Get the 82 I was told, it’s like getting a free power amp upgrade as well as a better preamp. They weren’t wrong - everything improved, including facets one might perhaps associate with a better power amp.
As I said, you just don’t drive your speakers with a bare NDX2 and a 282. They are not good enough.
He he trapped by my own words. This is like some mad adventure. Thanks again for input. I have found a 555PS on the auction site - thinking that allows me to upgrade source later if I want… the XPS two only works with the NDX2 I think.
It’s only a mad adventure because you started in the wrong place and don’t know where you’re heading. It’s nothing that wodges of cash can’t solve! The 555PS is definitely the way to go, and as you say you can use it for an ND555, which you can’t with a XPSDR. You’ll need to buy a XPS-S Burndy cable, as the 555PS doesn’t come with one. While you are at it, why not get a 552? Maybe it’s not too late to write to Santa. If that’s too much, get the 252 that worked so well at the demo. But, if you think you may get a 500, you really do want the 552.
That all shouts room, room, room! I.e. Speaker and listening positions, and quite possibly acoustic treatment. I think I’ve already suggested using REW to analyse what’s going on and assess different positioning etc.
I don’t believe I started in the wrong place - all your advice is helpful, but the constant referral to ‘wrong’ feels judgemental. I started this process with a Rotel Cinema amp sometime back in the early 2000s and my system has morphed since in many many ways. So this was just a step along the way and the 803s have given SOOOOO many benefits. I think it was reasonable to have got curious and gone for a demo after my first thread and my love of B&W + Naim (actually two if I include the one with the 350s). I decided based on the demo to buy. They were perfect in that context.
And yes I have learned there are many factors - including the source and pre amp which at the time I had assumed was the same as mine.
I agree - but it is not always possible even in Blighty. let alone elsewhere. Otherwise hearing your existing speakers in the dealer’s room goes a long way - but even listening at all isn’t possible everywhere.
@lamby2244@HungryHalibut I agree that your statement around getting what sounds like a ‘free’ amplifier upgrade when improving the source is very much the case, at least with Naim gear. I had a similar experience with going from a CD3.5 to a CDX many years back. The improvement in bass control and depth was significant, it did indeed sound like I had put a more substantial amp in the chain.