803 D4 Nap300DR - upgrade to amp or add subs? The bass seems to lack grip

Many thanks. That sounds a really interesting area in which to work. I studied animal behaviour for my PhD, and I’ve always found human behaviour fascinating. You could perhaps do a little study on Forum behaviour.

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I suspect that with difficult load speakers the 350 would do better than the 500. Possibly ultimate refinement might be not quite as good, but grip and control better. Which anyone would prefer might depend on their preference in sound presentation and with that the speakers they find most suited to them.

@SteveO That’s always a nice idea except when the speakers are 140 pounds each or they cost $ 24K or you live in the US where there are very few remaining Bricks and Mortar stores.

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Animal behaviour is super interesting to me. I love my field and my work. I looked at why good people did bad things in Financial Services for a decade - it wasn’t for the money which most people don’t believe but you might get.

This forum is mad!

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That is aligned to what he was speaking to.

Exactly true in my case - just wasn’t easily viable.

Bhaa Bhaa… (sorry this is not a dig at Lamby)

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Or in this Xmas period we can perform a combined research into animal and human behaviour. The Latin word ‘Forum’ certainly wasn’t appreciated in Bethlehem.

Sorry for the nonsense, I had to post something.

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Now my mind is blown. Literally not sure what to do. Pray?

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Put that second amp and let us know the results :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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That will be tomorrow’s activity.

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Here in the UK any dealer worth their salt will happily oblige with a home demo.
I’ve no problem leaving CC details for the dealers peace of mind, but there’s no way I’m splashing out large amounts of money without listening to it in my own room.
I found out the hard way. I bought my first real hifi after in-store demonstrations only, not knowing home demonstrationwas a thing. When I got it home it sounded very different in my room. From that point on I always have a home demo. If they wouldn’t oblige then there’d be no sale (no-one has ever refused me a home demo though).
I also believe that if I went to my dealer asking to audition the B&W speakers in question he would advise that my amplification wasn’t up to the task.
A good relationship with your dealer is a must IMO. I may sometimes pay a little more than it can be had elsewhere but I get valued advice from someone who knows my system and how I want it to sound.
If I were sold those speakers, with a 252 substituting for a 282, I could never trust that dealer again.

@SteveO I agree 100% with you. Problem is in the USA where I live there are almost no stores outside of large metropolitan areas. Dealers just don’t do home trials. They may not have the staff to do it. They don’t want to loan out demos because if a customer walks in and wants to hear that particular unit they have to tell them it’s out on loan. Patience isn’t a big thing in consumer spending these days.

It’s nice that in the UK you have this kind of service.

I’ve heard it said that the NAP300 can, in some cases, drive demanding speakers better than a 500. So it’s not unreasonable to think that the same might apply to the 350s, probably more so. You’d better start saving!

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Typically, I would initially loan a unit from the shop at closing time on a Saturday until the Tuesday when it re-opens, so no impact on walk-ins. We even have small manufacturers who’ll sell direct and take a return if you’re not happy.
I know it’s hard to change a culture single handedly, but if guys are walking in and spending >20k without home demos then the dealer doesn’t need to go the extra mile for the customer.
If I was a dealer and a 20k sale was in the balance, I’d do whatever I could to get it over the line.
I recently took a chance and bought a Blusound Node without a home demo, knowing I could get most of my money back in a resale if required, but never big money items. And a 20k pair of speakers? Not even if hell freezes over …

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Forgive me if you have already done this but one zero cost idea …

Have you checked to confirm that both speakers are connected to your NAP300 with both speaker cables having the same polarity?

If one speaker is wired with inverse polarity, then the speakers will partially cancel out each other’s deep bass.

Just a thought …

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It is an ideal, but how realistic depends on where peopleq live - even in Britain. In my experience taking one’s existing speakers to an audition in a seller’s premises to establish a baseline can go a very long way to minimising the risk of insurmountable problems upon getting home.

Hey thanks. I haven’t found anything out the hard way - I have just learned something at every stage, and I don’t feel hard done by.

AND now at this level I realise that it is more important than before to home demo. The cost of making minor tweaks is more now than ever, and the minor issues feel somehow bigger.

By the way I am VERY, VERY happy with what I have and yet I think there is another piece of the puzzle I want to play with that will set me up for a few years. This community has helped me identify my priority list.

Neither the dealer, nor Naim nor B&W have said that the amp isn’t up to the task. I didn’t think at the demo that the amp wasn’t up to the challenge. I don’t feel at home that the amp isn’t up to the challenge- I have just lost the roundness and the presence of the bass at lower levels.

I have a number of paths to play with and will report back.

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I will check in the morning

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I have some non standard 805 D2 and am currently using two Classe 300W stereo amps to bi-amp them. I used to have some Ruarks in my past life as well. D4 are certainly easier to drive than anything prior but pretty sure the development and voicing is done using Mark Levinson No. 33 monos. Be interesting to see what you find - I’m using a bare NDX2 as my source as well. I find the bass performance for a pair of stand mounts frankly incredible on my system, but I have spent many hours messing around with positioning, and still do from time to time.

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