Active adventure

Hi-Fi Corner
1

About five or so years ago a seed was sown in a thread that ultimately discussed going active with Allaes. dreadatthecontrols (no longer on the forum, I think?) shared great insights and experiences with his setup involving IXO, 90s and Allaes.

Slow forward to now and I (finally) had an opportunity to try things out with my own setup. A while back I managed to source a practically new SNAXO 242. An olive HiCap and NAP 180 were dusted off to complete the wonky setup (with 250DR on high duties).

After some cabling adventures(!), the system was finally ready to be put through some paces.

Iā€™ve heard different active setups over the years, but never in my own home with my own setup. This time was different. And what a difference - wow. Quite difficult to put into words, really, but to me it felt like another door had been opened on the true intent of what Naim is/was striving for - the musical realism in the room was arguably at its peak, in terms of my own setup. (Descriptors can be applied e.g. ā€œgreater timbreā€, ā€œtextureā€, ā€œdetailsā€, ā€œbass extensionā€, immediacy, presence; but they all come together in a sum much, much greater than these parts.) When one thinks of the signal path optimization, it makes sense.

And all this with an extremely un-optimised, wonky setup.

So, what next? Alas, space prevents the ideal path of adding a SuperCap to the Snaxo, upping the 180 to a 250DR and putting all on a dual stack. But it has prompted a thought experiment: if I canā€™t get to that right now, what could be achieved in a 5-level Fraim that gets closer to an active sound? Reversing in to it, is it two 350s? Arguably the closest, Naim-sourced passive solution. But then only three levels remain. Other ideas involve active speakers, different front- ends, etc., etc. But I enjoy the full Naim path. Lots of potential options to play around with.

Anyway, thanks for reading - this has prompted some serious thinking and, more importantly perhaps, thorough musical enjoyment.

Hereā€™s a pic to show how thoughtfully it was all put together. :slightly_smiling_face:

IMG_4015
IMG_40151920Ɨ3413 1.07 MB

And thanks once again to dread, who helped sow the seed.

8 Likes
2

Back in the 1980s I had a Naim CB active system 32.5/hicap snaxo 242 hicap 2x 250 SBLs fronted by LP12 lingo Ekos Troika Apart from the expense and ever present transformer hum I remember it was dynamic full of prat with serious slam and more transparent than my previous passive CB setup but still with a one dimensional sound stage.

1 Like
3

My active journey began many moons ago with IXO and Credos plus 2x 140, then a SNAXO HiCap and SBLs and now the full fat version in my profile.

At no stage have I gone back to passive except when one amp went for service, although I ran the SBLs passive in my second system for a while.

I guess my lessons have been that every upgrade of every component has delivered, but the PS on the SNAXO is really important. Shame you cannot fit a SCap DR here, it is quite a jump. Donā€™t forget to service the SNAXO too. I sort of forgot about it but when it was freshened up (not expensive at Class A Audio) the sound improved a lot

Finally a great value upgrade is to switch the ā€˜activeā€™ cable between the pre and SNAXO power supplies to SuperLumina. Everything cleaner and fresher. Easy to demo at home.

Would I go active if starting now? I suspect I would but with the vastly simpler lower box count of an ATC/PMC style system where the amps are integrated into the speakers. Partly for the simplicity as well as the performance. However what I have is staying, and I have no inclination to change it radically.

Enjoy!

Bruce

2 Likes
4

I thought about active over my many years of Naim ownership and have heard quite a few setups. They all sounded excellent but the complexity involvedā€¦.. the boxes, the cables, the sensitivity, not to mention the cost.

Iā€™ve had my PMC speakers for a few years now and when PMC released their active upgrades I went for it. For Ā£1,800 you get the crossover and two 100W amplifies for each speaker, which fit neatly inside the speaker cabinet. With an Atom HE the sound is superb, with all the active benefits of musical insight and engagement, speed and control. All with just three mains leads and two XLR cables. Brilliant.

4 Likes
5

that still appeals to me for my snug system if/when I decide to change it. probably not though as its absolutely superb as-isā€¦ā€¦

6

Every time a 2nd hand 500DR comes available I equally think about active ATCs or PMCs. The Kudos Sigao is very clever and good, but it would mean an extra 3 boxes and stacks more cabling.

(@HungryHalibut) Nigel, Iā€™ve got a dedicated radial, ideally would active speakers go on there as well?

Regards,

Lindsay

7

My speakers have an SMPS power supply so Iā€™ve connected them to the standard ring main. The decision was made easier because I have sockets only 30cm from each speaker. Connecting the left speaker to the radial would mean running a mains cable under the hearth, and the XLR and an ethernet cable are already there. I believe ATCs have a linear power supply and if thereā€™s correct then connecting to the radial would seem to make sense. The only issue we had was at Christmas, with a high pitched whine through the speakers. Mrs HH and I couldnā€™t hear it, but the boys could. I suspect it was the Christmas tree lights, the transformer for which was connected to the same double socket as the left hand speaker. The extra mains leads are a downside to the active in the speakers approach and as ever itā€™s about finding the best compromise.

1 Like
8

Active was always the holy grail to me in the 90s, either from Naim or Linn and the passive to active demonstrations were always very convincing.

There is a sort of quality to the sound that lies outside of pure clarity whereby going active with Tukans or Credos gave largely the same benefit as going active with DBLs or Keltiks. A sort of immediacy and presence that had nothing to do with the source or level of the speaker.

I since realized that the benefit of active is absolutely not the active crossover at all but the direct coupling of the power amp to the drive unit without any passive crossover between. The active crossover is merely the tool to achieve that with a multi driver speaker.

Fast forward a few decades and using that experience I built a system that is effectively ā€œactiveā€ with regards to the bit the counts: a single integrated amp driving single driver full range crossover-less speakers. Itā€™s that same immediacy and presence you expect from any active system.

The point: always consider a crossover-less full range speaker if you can find one you like (a bit of a rarity). The goal isnā€™t the active crossover and extra power amps. The goal is the direct drive coupling.

1 Like
9

@BruceW Thank you for sharing your experiences. Iā€™m a little envious of your SL2s - must sound rather good in active configuration! I keep keeping an eye for a pair and have yet to be successful. (And at the risk of thread drift, any consideration of an ND555?)

Thanks for the active lead suggestion - Iā€™ll have to see what the going rate is for them if I do determine a way to keep active. (And, yes, SNAXO has already had a trip to Salisbury and got a new lick of something.)

10

@HungryHalibut Thank you. Yes, your setup certainly sprang to mind when I started thinking about options. Iā€™ve heard a 222 (solo, no 300) with active ATCs and I donā€™t think I had long enough to make a fair consideration. I think I spent more time trying to interpret the new presentation. Different.

I am curious to hear PMCs, given the various positive reviews here from both passive and active camps.

Youā€™ve had many different sized Naim setups - is it at all possible to describe how different (or not) the sound is between the PMCs doing power amp duties and a Naim NAP? Maybe an unfair question for many reasons. Iā€™m just curious.

1 Like
11

Thank you @feeling_zen You raise a good point. Crossover-less speakers certainly didnā€™t come to mind at all when thinking of options. Any brands you might recommend?

It also makes me wonder if the active crossover aids some optimization in that it enables each amp to be dedicated to a narrower frequency range.

I donā€™t know :man_shrugging:t2: Iā€™m not technical in this area, but definitely food for thought.

12

Hi Sir Fish. The active ATCā€™s use all analog class A/B Mosfet power amps . Crossovers are active. No digital or smps are used anywhere.

13

I have been very impressed by adding the Primare to be used as the source for local and online streaming. I bought it to help with stability but the sound uplift has been substantial. The NDS is now effectively just the DAC.

Before trying the Primare I had wondered about a source upgrade, perhaps ND555 or more likely a 333 for the modern streaming platform but that change is definitely deferred now.

Bruce

1 Like
14

There are several out there. I use some largish Omega floorstanders with a 10w amp. But there are a few out there. I think AE make one though it uses a small driver and is somewhat harder to drive. Probably nothing the N50 canā€™t handle though.

I canā€™t say Iā€™ve ever put my Omegaā€™s onto my UQ2 though to test for Naim synergy. They are rated at 98db and have a 50w power handly ceiling with a 2-25w recommended range. One thing about the Omegaā€™s is they are available in hundreds of veneers. I olmost opted for blue stained poplar or bleached driftwood.

Decware also make some but they require oceans of space behind them.

If you want the main benefit of active (direct drive coupling) with low boxes and low cable counts, itā€™s the way to go IMO.

1 Like
15

Iā€™m not sure itā€™s something I can meaningfully comment on, as Iā€™ve not heard PMCs driven actively by Naim power amps. All I can say is that the speakers sound just as Naimy driven by the PMC amps as by a Nova. Just as Naimy but much, much better.

1 Like