You appear to assume that the quality of a class D amp is purely due to the modules used. This is so reminiscent of some of the anti Class-D challenges in the Nova PE thread. In that thread it was pointed out that there is a lot more to a complete amp than the core modules, part power supply and part the implementation of the modules. I guess one can liken it to the discussions over implementation of an inexpensive and long superceded DAC chip in Naim’s DAC products.
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Hmm, I think that you have missed my point/not read my post properly . I am very much not assuming that the quality is down to the Class D modules alone but how they are implemented. That is why I made my comments about the power supplies for the modules. To be more explicit - the cost of the active upgrade is roughly £1800 so for each speaker it is £900. For that you have an analogue active crossover, 2 x ICE modules and then whatever power supplies are needed. And all this in a very compact unit. There are some very good Class D amps but they need really good power supplies and tend to be quite expensive. I also said that I hadn’t heard the active PMC’s, that one of the possibilities is that they are brilliant and that I genuinely did not know the answer.
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Whilst I had noted your recognition of power supply importance, I was primarily responding to you offering only two options, which in my understanding seemed to me to distil down to:
Either 1) In your view there is no way a £100 class D module with a PS costing no more than a few £hundred can be anywhere near as good quality as amps costing multiple £thousands, therefore the only reason why they sound good must be the benefits of active being so much better than passive driving.
Or 2) Everyone who says they sound better than the passive speakers driven by decent conventional amps including various Naim amps is wrong.
If 2 indeed applies then end of story. But assuming that reports of benefit are correct, then there is at least a 3rd option, that the class D modules are actually very good and PMC has managed to design or (maybe more likely) source suitably good power supplies indeed only costing £hundreds, which together with applying whatever implementation of the modules is needed to make them perform very well. (This absolutely does not mean that active with better amps wouldn’t sound even better, nor that passive with even better amps than the people so far preferring the modules had compared might sound better.)
My reference to the Nova PE thread, which I know you had mentioned in the context of cost, was because the wealth of negative views expressed there all seemed to be predicated on a prejudice against class D, and where actually based on poor experience of class D that being past implementations, and it rather felt that your post followed the same sort of view - my apologies if that rather misrepresented you. Yes the Nova PE is considerably more expensive and only two channels not four as in a pair of PMC’s active units, but it includes a source including DAC, and a preamp including low level inputs, is in a fancy box, and is made by Naim, priced to be positioned within a range, with a strong feeling in the Nova PE thread that it is way overpriced.
My own expectation, not having heard, is that these PMC units score by the amps being very good for the money, coupled with the benefits of active and with the active XO characteristics closely tailored to complement driver response, and that to beat them you’d likely have to pay a lot more - but beating them would be possible, at least with an active setup (e.g. as the external active triamping PMC offer for some top speaker products. Perhaps relevant to all of this is that these modules are only aimed at the bottom end of PMC’s wide range of speakers.
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Thanks for the reply.
I contacted the first PMC dealerover here (Netherlands), there aren’t much of them in this region. He says they will be available soon, so probably wil book a demo to hear the difference. Hope I can take the modules home afterwards (not my regular hifi dealer who is very relaxed with that kind of stuff) for a demo at home.
Maybe settle on the NAC 272 as pre-amp first and wait for a nice deal on a NCS222!
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Hi @GraemeH
Congrats. Bet that sounds brilliant.
Along our own recent journey, had the opportunity to listen to 332 → 333 → PMC 23i active.
Context : Did this as part of answering several questions, to understand if active 23i’s would be up to the task with better ( or best ) sources and pre-amps. Well, wasn’t disappointed. It’s a sublime system. (Ultimately, helping to convince us to invest in PMC active options). Can only image what yours sounds like, with additional of additional PSU’s too.
Happy listening
R
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Thanks. Looking forward to adding an NPX 300 to the 333 in the near future. It will be very much the icing on the cake, as I don’t feel the system lacking in any way.
G
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The active(PMC) module meant to turned on all the time, even not playing music?
Mine are being left on in normal use.
G
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Best ask PMC. I expect the answer will be along the lines that there is no need to leave on, but no harm done if you do. They might suggest turning on a little before using.
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I asked PMC about their use after installation:
‘There is no appreciable performance change as they 'burn in 'or warm up. Warming up will take moments, so don’t think you must leave them powered up to get the very best from them. You can switch them off if you prefer.
They have been rigorously tested here at the factory, so any detectable changes they may have made during their first stages of use are well and truly past’
That said, I’ve noticed an appreciable improvement in bass timing and control after about the 3 week period. I suspect however that it was the twenty5.23i coming good, but perhaps a bit of both.
Enjoy… I know I am.
G
G
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I too listened to 40 passives with 250DR, and then 40A…active hands down in many areas.
we switched to passives with 300DR, I thought the bottom end was stronger but when we switched back 40 actives it just felt right. Plus I meant I could sell my 250DR/speaker & interconnect cables + old speakers for net zero.
I ordered the 40 actives and have been very happy with them for over 7 years, fronted by 272/555
Only upgrade thought during that period, has been when and what to update the 272, and not the speakers…which of course like everything have gone up in price in that period.
Certainly worth a listen, and they might just tick the box for you and be more affordable than you might think.
edit: They have been left on 24/7 except for holidays …we listen to the TV (optical input to 272)
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I also have ATC 40A and I had 272/xpsdr… I tried something else and sold my 272… There is much better today (musically speaking) for the same price as the sale in second hand.
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Latest update…
In The Beginning
The Genesis of this latest adventure in HIFi starting maybe two years ago. Thinking of adding floor standing speakers to our second “better and best” system we were developing over time.
Along the way, we have experienced Kudos Super20A, Spendor D7.2 and ProAc D20R.
Also, several flavours of Neat.
All these passive speakers were within a budget.
Plus the mighty Kudos Titan 606.
These were both awesome and unaffordable too.
Even an Ex demo’ pair was stretching too far.
We also went to find and audition the latest Epos ES14N, which was enjoyable, maybe more nostalgic, perhaps inspired by a love of own original ES14’s . In the end, nice as these stand mounts were, we decided we really wanted floor standers this time around.
Image note : the old and the new. Maybe 35+ years between them.
Our modest budget, was always a sensible “around £4-5k”.
More recently, continuing our attentions on passive speakers - ATC 40’s or PMC 23i’s - following several previous listens, this duo had become our short list. Thinking these two comparably priced speakers, were both best contenders, for us.
Then, in 2024, the recent addition of PMC Twenty5 active upgrade module, was added as an idea to consider too.
Project “Going Active”
A comparison of passive and active version of PMC and ATC speakers followed.
What might be said about active ? In the end, enough to be persuaded to consider active speakers too…
We examined three options in detail.
1). PMC Twenty5 23i active @ £5,975
2). ATC SCM40A @ £7,750 ( Note : During July, these rose to a new RRP £8,500 )
3). ATC SCM20ASLT tower @ £9,250
( Note: All prices current at time of writing, August 2024).
The 40’s are an interesting passive speaker, but didn’t quite do it for us.
The active version was so much better, with less or little concern. But at a much higher price point.
They didn’t make it to a home demo’ loan.
However, the dealer wanted to share with us what active ATC speakers were capable of.
That’s how we arrived at listening to active 20 towers.
Leaving aside specific nuances of different speakers, all active speaker solutions share common characteristics. The following passage was recently found and saved, which thought was insightful, copied below…
“The sonic benefits of active amplification are higher resolution, improved dynamic range, control and transparency, all at a reasonable cost. Dispensing with the need for a conventional power amplifier also has the benefit of reducing box count”.
Thought that paragraph just about nailed it, ( for going active ).
Having listened to these three active options…
It’s maybe better to think of these options as three different executions of active at different price points. Not really fair to compare any of these three directly with each other, as equivalent. They each do things differently, maybe better too, as you add additional budget into the equation.
So, further thoughts about two of these speakers, maybe a world apart…
Comments are relative, one speaker relative to another.
(Note : Preferences are likely a personal thing and others may think entirely differently).
ATC SCM20ASLT Tower
Maybe read the original update, above, that covers this special speaker, in much more detail.
The dealer demo’ was impressive, so they immediately came home - for a home demo’ loan - for a longer listen and to get to know them. We streamed, played LP’s & CD’s across lots of musical genres, and listened at differing volume levels.
Image note : ATC active 20 tower, on home loan.
These quite tall ( and equally heavy) speakers belying their studio monitor heritage.
Accurate, maybe clinical, measured, assured, fast, deep and easy to like.
With loads of control - words like “grip” and “control” spring to mind - on the music, regardless of level. Also “assured” : At no point, does this speaker seem to loose any of its poise.
Like other ATC speakers, their midrange was a noticeable element of their personality.
Maybe the mids were a little forward from the rest of their bandwidth.
In an interesting exchange, my best mate ( my wife ) declared “they sound stunning, but not sure about their old fashioned looks”. Thinking she summed things up about right. After all, they were first designed back in the mid 90’s.
The extra money is clearly well spent and provides for the most refined execution of active, from the three we studied.
All things being relative to each other…
There was definitely gains in SQ going up from active 23i to 40A to active 20 towers.
However, (our opinion and maybe value judgement ) we were unconvinced the difference between 23i active and 40 active was worth the additional budget. But the difference to the active 20 towers is more compelling .
Tony is such a star for his customers…
On hearing those often used HiFI customer words “Love it, but really can’t afford it”, he got busy looking for a win for his customer. ATC shared with him - passed on to us - the 20 towers could be initially supplied as passive. Passive at £5,750 was do-able. They offered to upgrade passive to active, later, as a retrofit service to us as the customer. This thoughtful idea was indeed tempting. So, we seriously thought about this idea for a while. However, would have meant buying the passive 20 towers blind, ( no prior audition). Maybe a small risk, if the end game was for active.
PMC Twenty5 23i, c/w active modules
Home loan + Thoughts
Think the PMC 23i’ s can be described as “good all rounders”. They do all or most things well, with no obvious quirks. They seem to just get on with the task of playing music, with little fuss. In other words, they seem easy. The active versions appear more refined, detailed and effortless. Nor do they have any prominent characteristics. Maybe the LF is worthy of mention, as the reach really low in an entirely satisfying way.
Uniquely - for us - me and my best mate ( my wife), we generally listen a lot at lower volumes. which only became obvious during this adventure and thinking about our requirements. Mention this now, as we discovered the PMC’s have an appealing quality, being able to articulate music really well at lower levels. In the end, this facet became one of the most desirable plus point for the PMC.
It’s maybe only some 10% of the time, chances occur for solo listening and to crank up the volume. But you’re in for a treat when you do and the full force of the PMC ‘s nice balance and transmission line depth moves air.
It also needs to be said out load, their contemporary and diminutive compact size is maybe liked by design thinking minds, for domestic arrangements. They look cool.
Decision Time
During the time the PMC’s were at home on loan, we came to like them a lot.
The heart might be wishing for the very best. (At a cost). But, where does it stop? So, the head lent into the idea these PMC’s did a great job, importantly, within our modest budget. In fact, they are just perfect.
As an aside, quick thought to share. Along the journey, two key moments that were influential …
- Listening to a speaker from passive, then active.
- Listening to any active speaker with a separate, better pre- amplifier.
( which is maybe a rationale for “going active”, in the first place )
But then something else happened, as an opportunity.
At various times, we chatted with Tony about the idea of active speakers and later on, a better pre-amplifier to go with active speakers… As is so often the case, Tony puts his mind to these things.
Tony, was able to find us exactly what we wished for - capable active speakers AND a better pre amplifier. It feels like Christmas arrives earlier at Basically Sound.
Be careful what you wish for…?
A nearly new NAC282 became available.
It reminded me of our LP12 refurbishment project, back in 2021. At the time, we chatted about keeping everything original to its vintage. Maybe adding a Linn Troika cartridge. Tony found a good condition used example, for Goldring to rebuild. He’s so clever.
So, items appearing into our house, supplied from @BasicallySound …
- Naim NAC282 pre-amplifier ( 2023, nearly new )
- PMC Twenty5 23i
- PMC Twenty5 active upgrade modules
- Power cables, speaker cables, bits and bobs to make it work.
Image note : PMC Twenty5 23i speakers, with Twenty5 active upgrade module installed.
So, now we are active and happy for the two significant steps forward taken with SQ. Adding active speakers, (within budget) and trading SN3 for a better separate Naim pre-amplifier. All for the price of just the one step really.
Although - TBH - this decision was uniquely as much based on the availability of a nearly new NAC282 ( 2023, nearly new ) as much as anything.
Sound Logic…
A NAP 250 DR might also offer a credible way forward, ( with any upgrade journey), added to a SN3 and with decent passive speakers. But found the addition of a better pre-amplifier in combination with active speakers, to be a more appealing sound.
By trading our SN3, a nearly new 282 comes into our home with little or no cost to us.
This was more a happy coincidence, than anything planned or considered.
But, it also allowed ALL our intended budget to be invested in to active speakers.
We were already considering the passive PMC 23i compact floor standers.
The active PMC 23i offer something more and better than their passive version.
They are a creditable and capable active speaker, made so much more impressive when fronted by a good source and separate pre-amplifier. (Which we were able to achieve at the same time).
Would immediately acknowledge the ATC 40’s and 20’ were maybe more accomplished executions of active.
If you like what the 40A ( or indeed the 20ASLT ) does, with more budget, others might be persuaded to stretch.
However, at its relative price point, the active 23i is a cracker of an active speaker.
So, if you like the 23i as passive, for a bit more, you might also really love the 23i as active.
Image note : Both active and passive cross over modules, for PMC Twenty5 23i .
Actually, we are happy to have the passive version, and purchase the active module separately, as think it an advantage to have and keep both separate passive cross-over and active modules, for future flexibility, etc. (After all, part of this hobby is to move things around, have fun listening, experiment with things over time.)
Now delighted, this unexpected result to be the best outcome for budget available.
We are indeed happy bunnies.
Our second “ better and best” system is now complete
( Although, might add an external psu to our nDAC sometime in the future 
)
This is where we have landed…
- Naim CD5 XS + Naim ND5 XS2 → Naim nDAC
- Naim NAC282 + Naim HiCap DR
- PMC Twenty5 23i active
Image note : A stack of OC. ( Note for stacking police - it’s just a snap for the story here).
Good Things ( Come to Those Who Wait)
The quiet hero in this story is the HiFi dealer.
Circling back to a key theme for this thread. Which is the symbiotic nature of good relations between a great dealer and their customer, along a longer system building journey.
It’s worth investing in your local emporium.
Trust provides for so much more in the longer term. Basically Sound have been brilliant with speakers and different experiments with boxes. Patient and supportive knowing the hard work will likely get to a happy customer. Evidence, in our case, on this latest adventure, when we came to understand what we wanted - which wasn’t necessarily readily available - Basically Sound was able to work through contacts and connections to deliver the goods.
Tony so often surprises with an ability to “pull rabbits from a hat”, with various creative solutions.
The journey will inevitably continue and we have absolute faith that our chosen dealer will always go the extra mile to help and support. Service ( and creative thinking ) like that will always get the business.
And so it works both ways.
Good things usually come to those who wait.
Happy listening
R
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Great post/story. Very informative. I do love my passive Proac’s but adding a NAP250Dr as you noted, could be a great way forward for me.
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Nice write up, but one thing puzzles me: if I read correctly, the ATC 40A didn’t make it to home demo because of its cost? But the 20A is more expensive and did?
Sure…
An option was to take longer. Maybe another year or two. Obviously, more cost too.
An option to keep the SN3 and add passive 20 towers, as an interim step.
This thoughtful idea and offer, from ATC , was only available for their Tower product, not the 40’s.
BW
R
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That was an interesting read - Thanks for posting. It sounds like you’ve ended up in a very good place with the 282 and active PMCs.
It’s good to read that Basically Sound are still going strong. My dealer when I was at University.
Enjoy your new setup 
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Good read! My Epos14’s (used w/ a 52/250) are giving me the hairy eyeball and whispering - don’t even think about it. 
How would you sum up the difference between your 14’s & the passive PCM’s? If I ever tried to move up from my 14’s, active ATC’s are at the top of my list but I can appreciate the direction you took and should probably have a listen.
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Morning ratrat , spent the last few minutes reading through your latest post, brilliant account of your journey to where you are now and a very enjoyable read as usual.
Can I ask how are you finding the 282?
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….Could not have put the ATC / PMC comparison better….bravo….
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