I never thought to ask at the time. However, hopefully it should only be a few weeks so I think I’ll get by with my new headphones which I’m enjoying.
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I went thru the same process in late 2016, 40 passive with my 250, 40 passive with 300Dr then actives
ended up with ATC SCM40a being fed by 272/555
previously had 272/555 250 into some rather large passives speakers that didn’t suit our new home.
sold the speakers 250 interconnects speaker cables which totally funded the 40 actives …and killed off my upgraditus.
Now of course I’m back looking at a 272 replacement as that is getting a little long in the tooth but still good as ever it was…or maybe I add a sub or two
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Hello @parleeking
Thanks for sharing that personal experience 
Okay, @Dan.S so that is now 3 use cases, swapping from NAP300 → passive speakers, over to ATC active as an alternative.
(Note : At the same time, appreciate going active might not be everyone’s "cup of "time, for all the reasons being explored here).
Happy listening.
R
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Forgot to add that mine where discounted and full retail price has risen a few times since purchase, so today’s full price is 60% higher than I paid. They have been used for thousands of hours at lower volumes as our TV sound plays thru them (optical feed into N272)… visitors are often very surprised our good our TV sounds
I think they took 100 hours or so to bed in.
if ever I feel like an upgrade, unhook the 555 for a week…it sounds flat of course, connect it back up and all is great again. i’m sure the ears brain just likes to hear new/different things
and bst part of finding this thread… today listened to David Sylvian for the first time in ages. saw him live 40 years ago fronting Japan and also solo
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Just got a call from the dealer - the active boards for my PMC Twenty5 23i’s have arrived so I’ll be picking them up with the speakers tomorrow - a few weeks earlier than expected.
Looking forward to having them hooked up to my Atom HE at last.
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Nice
Do share thoughts
And pictures too
Will do. I’ll post initial thoughts after listening over the weekend and again after a bit of run-in.
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Since going to active I could never go back to passive speakers. there’s a certain realism I’ve never experienced with passives.
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It’s not that rare. My UK dealer used the 23s as the goto for a certain type of customer who could buy plenty of boxes but was space/style constrained for speakers. I put my Twenty5.23 in front of a 282/SCdr/250dr and don’t feel like they outclassed or over amped. So I imagine 333/332 into active 23s would be equally acceptable.
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That was my sense too
In fact, tried that combo ( 333 - 332 - active 23i’s) a few days ago and was delighted the active 23i’s dealt with the challenge really well. Hoping to report on this fully, with an update soon. ( When time allows).
On this journey, I’ve learned a few things about speaker selection. Maybe things hadn’t thought about too much previously. So, dealers will often start with a question about the room to be used. Plus other relevant things, such musical style, system, domestic situation, etc. But room is often their first thought. Speaker type and size ( the amount of energy the speakers creates in the room) is then advised. So, in our case, PMC floor stander 23i is best fit, maybe not larger 24i or 26i, etc. My point being, all things being equal, it’s not just about the quality of the electronics, per se. Sometimes about other factors too.
At the moment, I’m really getting to grips with the relationship between room and speaker.
It’s all interesting
R
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Indeed the “best speakers” are the ones that compliment your room….
I like PMC as a brand although I always felt the price points were too high for the products they sell.
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Transmission line speakers are inherently expensive due to their greater complexity in both design and build. But since I first included one in an audition nothing else has sounded as good…
As for speaker matching to room, some people say transmission lines are less fussy, though I’ve never understood why that might be. However, and maybe I’ve just been lucky, over many house moves, speakers never chosen specifically to match the room, I’ve only ever had a problem with one room. That is with four sets of transmission line speakers, all floorstanders, in 9 homes over nearly 50 years The first and smallest (if made by PMC today they’d probably fit in their Twenty5 range as the missing 25, if not the 26), I lived with in 6 different living rooms, and have heard since in two other rooms, and they sounded good in all without much fussing with positioning from the initial spots. Their successor, larger transmission lines, I had in 4 different rooms, and subsequently heard in another, and in only one room was there ever a problem getting things to sound right, requiring a complete room rearrangement (facilitated with REW software to see what was going on). The other two I’ve only had in the one room, the same problem room as aforementioned, but worked fine with much the same layout. However perhaps relevant is that the smallest of all these rooms was 5m x 3.5m
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At some point, I’ll have to test drive these active boards for myself and see if there’s a substantial benefit vs the 300DR. From what I can tell from both spec sheets and playing with various amps, these 25.23 love power.
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An update, report from Saturday 1st June.
Back at Basically Sound.
First - thank you’s - as always, my sincere thanks to Tony @basicallysound. Tony is such a good sport. So grateful for everything Basically Sound does, helping to support well informed decisions on what to do next, along a musical journey.
If fact, one of the key themes of this thread, is the symbiotic relationship for both parties. The many benefits that comes from trust between a great dealer and a music loving customer, on a long term musical journey…
With more time, wished to understand how the active PMC Twenty 23i would cope with a better front end and pre-amplifier. (We touched on this at the end of the last session. As my own journey likely leads to add an external psu for our existing streamer and nDAC. Plus, the longer term possibility of a separate pre-amplifier). In other words, an attempt to validate speaker choices, now, with thoughts about what might follow later.
With this in mind, Tony at Basically Sound suggested not holding back…
When discussing what items to bring over to the showroom, proposed “or we just use 333 and 332 and be done with it”.
I was fine with the idea, not using my home system. It’s a pain to relocate everything. (In hindsight, understand “not holding back” was a genius idea. Maybe to explore potential boundaries and seeing how far speakers might go)?
Besides, I was also curious to listen to 300 items again and get the measure of such items, with PMC active speakers. So, that’s the way we both went…
Demo system used…
NSS333 → HiLine →
NAC332
Image : Demo’ system used - NSS333 + NAC332
The NC250 was also present - bottom shelf - to explore the alternative and adding a Naim power amplifier instead. That is, an alternative to active modules in the PMC’s. More on that later.
PMC 23i as Active
With a fine front end and pre-amplifier in use, speakers can really shine, or be exposed ?
Well, not holding back worked quite well.
Image : PMC 23i, as active, with Naim 300
Long story short.
The PMC’s as active gave a fine account of themselves.
Played familiar pieces for about an hour, lots of varied music and liked what they were doing.
As suggested in earlier OP, above, could live with these speaker, in active form…
Was already considering the passive version. In my very personal, admittedly subjective opinion, active form offers more compared to their passive version. More control, grip, power, accuracy. The music was more forward and at the same time, effortless.
Yes, as active, more energetic too.
But in a good way. Personally, I can live with this - as a complete package - as it comes with lots of the other positive benefits that are preferred.
Lastly, the PMC speakers are compact floor standers, (maybe easier), smaller in a room setting.
At this point, was perhaps quite happy with what had been learned.
However…
ATC Active Options
On the last listening session, a week ago - made a few observations about the PMC’s and also the way ATC 40’s work as active. Guessing Tony had probably taken comments onboard and thought about this.
Hey presto, suggesting an alternative ATC option for a listen, on this visit…
Enter ATC SCM20ASLT Tower, as active.
Image : ATC 20 Towers, as active, with Naim 300
Within a few bars of playing music - David Sylvian : Orpheus, from Secrets of the Beehive, (1987) - remember thinking 
(a) wow (b) amazing (c) bl***y hell. Instant elation that a speaker could be so good. One of those rare immediate and impressionable hifi moments.
The experience made hairs stand up on the neck.
(But, at the same time some disappointment, when learning at MRRP £9,250, these are too far away from our budget to be workable. So, chatted about whether the passive version at more budget friendly £5,750 might work)?
Comparing the active 20 Towers with ATC sibling 40’s…
ATC’s do mid-range with aplomb.
Perhaps even a little forward in the mids, but can live with that.
On my musical journey, I’ve realised a few things about the way our music is preferred. The strong mid range presence for which ATC is revered, being such a positive attribute. Coming from Epos ES14’s, this is really appreciated. However, felt the 40’s raised a couple of questions. (Explored in OP, above). To be fair, these are small things. If I was given a pair of 40’s tomorrow, would still be delighted to have them. Also, the active 40’s were better and had less concern about them as active. So, we are dealing with nuances.
At this point, important context…
(1) Earlier, in my younger career, worked in music production, musical venues and pro’ studio equipment. But also, through the many years since, my best mate (my wife) and myself often go to listen to live music. In fact, we also have friends that perform too. So, please forgive my immodesty when I explain I feel I know what most instruments sound like. An acoustic memory?
(2) We had kids practicing instruments in the house for too many years. At first, with patience. Later on, with pride and pleasure. Clarinet, Saxophone, Piano, Drums, Cello.
(3) Only this week, we stood several feet from a seven piece jazz band playing live on a stage. So, the sound of an alto sax, double bass, guitar, piano, whatever, are all very recognisable.
(4) Admittedly a personal thing, I like to listen to and follow electric bass, double bass, or percussion. Instead of being a Systems Engineer, as a musician might have been a bass player or a drummer?
As an aside, the cello is my very favourite instrument to listen to.
With that important context in mind, getting back on topic…
The 20 Towers work in an entirely different and satisfying way.
Their bass is full and nicely defined at modest levels. As well as being accurate across the bandwidth and at enjoyable at lower volume levels too. So, no concerns here in these two regards, but with all the expected benefits of a well rounded speaker design, as active : Control ; grip ; authority; sparkle; detail; accuracy; soundstage, etc, etc. Such a nice speaker.
The key finding is that at “reasonable volumes”, the active 20 Towers (relative to active 40’s), make wonderful music. Crack them up a bit and they become really impressive.
At this stage, I’m not thinking too much about technical specifications and the physics reasons why these two ATC speakers work in different ways.
These old cloth ears tell me things. It’s just that simple.
Others Say it Better
These extracts - about ATC SCM20 ASLT Towers - from the maker, ( source : ATC Speakers)
The speaker uses a simple 2 way design that incorporates a special dome on the midrange driver that helps deliver the unique midrange ATC is famous for…
… Central to its performance is the mid/bass unit designed by Billy Woodman and hand made in house at ATC. The hybrid design incorporates a 150mm bass cone on to which is grafted a 75mm soft dome. The magnet assembly utilises ATC’s unique “SL” technology which greatly reduces distortion in moving coil drive units by a very significant 12-15dB (3rd harmonic). To minimise Time Domain Distortion both dome and cone are made from acoustically “dead” polyester wave material doped with ATC’s own formulation…
…Not only does the SCM20 reproduce bass with remarkable articulation and authority, it also has outstanding mid-band clarity, incredible dynamic range, and awesome power handling. The active version is powered by the ATC “Grounded Source” Bi-amplifier. The bass/mid is driven with 250 watts, while the tweeter has 50 watts of class “A/B” amplifier power.
Taking Stock
What’s been learned in this latest listening session?
Having now heard two active speakers that work - for me - I’m even more interested in this approach.
For clarity, still like the active PMC’s and consider them a viable option, but at their relative price point.
It’s maybe unfair to compare these ATC 20 Tower’s ( or even the 40’s) with the 23i’s, as they are each very different propositions at differing price points.
The active 20 Towers have made a massive positive impression. However, I’m not sure where the active 20 Towers fit in to our musical journey yet. Lots to consider with these, including their cost, or relative cost compared to alternatives?
Perhaps it’s better to think about these as different executions of active. Maybe, to consider each at different levels? PMC 23i active at £5,950. ATC 40’s active at £7,750 and 20 Towers active at £9,250. (Prices current in May 2024).
For the ATC 20 Towers, in many ways, a better comparison would be to other speakers at around £9-10k. In this context, still think the ATCs are brilliant. I’ve heard passive PMC Twenty5 26i and also Titan 606’s. Both are impressive speakers. On our own journey, recently auditioned the 606’s with our SN3. Wow, liked the Titan 606’s a lot. But these might want ( need) a decent power amplifier, to get their best. Maybe a pre-loved NAP 250 DR at £2-3k or latest NC 250 at just over £6k.
Then, we are back to the same debate on VFM, engineering for best SQ solution and box count.
- Like the PMC Twenty5 23i, as passive. They are an easy speaker to like.
- The ATC SCM40, as passive are okay. (Really want to like them, but might prefer the PMC’s as a passive option).
- Compared with their passive version, preferred the PMC Twenty5 23i, as active. Could stretch to afford these.
- Liked the ATC SCM40A, as active too. But need to really like them to find extra cash and make this work. (Maybe save for another few months and come back to this in early 2025).
- The ATC SCM20 ASLT Towers, as active, are impressive. (As they should be at their price point). However, they don’t fit within the budget and so wondering about their passive version, as a budget friendly alternative.
Hmmmm 
What About the NC250?
Finally, we ran out of time to go back to PMC’s as passive and add a power amplifier. With more time, intend to go back to this idea. As it’s a topic that needs to be fathomed and better understood.
Music Matters : Test Tracks
It’s always about the joy of music.
Some old familiar favourites, which never disappoint when testing.
Also, mixed it up a bit this time, with some indie, electronica and dance too.
Go Go Penguins : “Wave Decay” + “Ascent”, from From the North (live), (2024).
The Blue Nile : “A Walk”… + “Tinseltown”… from A Walk… (1984).
The Bad Plus : “Everywhere You Turn”, from These are the Vistas, (2003).
Bonobo : “Shadows”, ( feat. Jordan Rakei), from Fragments, (2022).
Maribou State : “Wallflower”, from Portraits, (2015).
David Sylvian : “Orpheus” + “When Poets Dreamed of Angels”, from Secrets of the Beehive, (1987).
Echo and the Bunnymen : “Get in the Car”, from What Are You going To Do With Your Life?
Diane Krall : “East of the Sun” …. from Live in Paris ( 2002 )
The Crusaders : “Street Life”, from Street Life, (1979).
Jasmine Myra: “Rising”, from Rising (2024).
Madonna ( feat. William Orbit) : “Nothing Really Matters”, from “Ray of Light” (1998).
Elbow : Fly Boy Blie / Lunette, from Take-Off… (2014).
It’s so nice to discover all these great speaker choices.
Happy listening.
Best wishes
R
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Nice - I do like the look of the SCM20s, especially in the tower version.
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Whilst your write-ups are very interesting, I can’t help thinking it’s getting complicated! If it was me l, I’d think more about budget - if SCM20 ASLT is too expensive then just forget it. If, however, it is not so far out as to be impossible if it really is right, then I’d also be wanting to hear what else there is up to that same now increased budget (of course factoring in that a passive speaker needs an amp, but an active not).
The challenge with a change to active speakers coming from passive, when you start off thinking “I want new speakers”, is that you are buying an amp as well, reducing the spend on the speaker part compared to buying passive, when ideally you would consider it as a joi t amo and speaker buy, with budget appropriate. I suspect this difficulty inhibits many potential changes.
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Wise words. Agree.
I’ll get there… 
In the meantime, just sharing along the way.
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Brilliant write up and a really enjoyable read just feel we seem to have moved into a much higher plain and much more costly one but I totally understand why, putting a top class front end on the speakers will show you their ability so that makes sense but the budget to get to the level of equipment your listening to now is considerable.
Your account of the demo is very informative, when reading it I almost felt l was waiting for you to say “but or if”
.
Many years ago a good friend of mine owned a Hifi shop so I would regularly pop in for a chat/coffee most of the time we didn’t talk Hifi but there was always the odd visit where he would say pop in the back and have a listen to the new setup, always keen to have a listen to a top class system I was more than happy to cooperate and pretty much it always sounded fantastic but the kicker was always “how much is that lot then?” and at the time it was usually enough to by a reasonable house😂.
Don’t get me wrong if I had the financial power to spend a small fortune on a system I be in the dealers like a shot but I find now I really enjoy the journey and try and avoid the temptation to listen to kit that is out of reach.
I have set a realistic goal for myself to try and reach, hopefully getting there in the next year or two then I read your thread and start thinking but what if ! scary this hobby, keep posting, always love your threads and really hope which ever way you choose it brings you massive amounts of pleasure, cheers👍
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Yes, it sometimes feels like that at Basically Sound too.
Over the past 10 years or so, have got to know Tony, Graham and Pete quite well.
Thanks
Over time, have received an enormous amount of value from this forum. Including with your own efforts.
It’s a way to give something back.
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Quite a review ! If looking for an ATC active comparison to the PMC Twenty5 23 actives the ATC SCM19A at £4800 would be more appropriate ?
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