Dear Naim community, I need your opinions and assessments on the following situation: I listen to music as follows.
Streaming via Tidal and Qobuz with a Roon NUC, a Limetree Bridge I in Mode 1 and a fixed sampling rate of 96 kHz, using a Naim nDAC with 1704k chips and the Lehmann Linear headphone amplifier with its pre-out as a preamplifier. The whole thing goes to the Nuprime ST-10 power amplifier. The speakers are from Daniel Kiefer Audio, Heidelberg, a specialist speaker manufacturer (2-way floorstanding speakers). I don’t use any external power supplies at the moment. I notice that the power supply supplied by Limetree hums quietly. However, I can only hear this when I sit 10 cm in front of it. I live in an old building with wooden floors and carpet. Part of the seating area is well aligned.
I can listen to music really sensationally with this system when it comes to things like Norah Jones, Eva Cassidy, Dire Straits, Eric Clapton, and chamber music (cello concertos). It all has a very intimate atmosphere. The instruments and musicians are in the room playing together, yet they are clearly separated from each other, and there is also a certain breadth and depth of layering. The whole thing becomes problematic with complex opera choir and orchestra music. I get the impression that the musicians are no longer playing together. They are overtaking each other. It seems hectic. There is hardly any depth and it sounds muddy. I wonder whether the Bridge I is the right streamer for the Naim nDAC. Would a LUMIN U2 mini or a Naim ND5 XS2 improve things, would external power supplies improve things, or is the system simply specialized for vocal jazz, guitars, and smaller ensembles? When I listen to music with my Grado RS 1, it’s a little better. However, the strength of these headphones lies in the aforementioned music and not in classical music. And I don’t want to believe that it’s because of my speakers. It’s a real shame, because I like this combination of music and also classical music (I sang at the Bayreuth Festival myself, for example), but it’s no fun. Do you have any ideas for me? Thank you very much!
@blackpanther71 Do you have a Naim dealer near you? I would suggest simplifying. An Atom HE with either active speakers or a NC250 or an older 250. I woukd also suggest auditioning better. speakers
When you listen to classical music you are familiar with where things should be placed in the soundstage. Studio recordings can place items in the soundstage wherever they chose with an artificial accuracy.
I would first check and check again all connections. Make sure all left and right cables are where they should be. Pay particular care on the speaker cables checking both the cable and plugs are correct. I’ve seen a plug attached in error before.
Then play with speaker positions trying no to toe in then just a little
Also try a test Lp/cd/download for phase checking and balance
Let us know how you go
I listen mainly to classical music, most bought as downloads at 96kHz 24bit, from the likes of Hyperion, LSO, Signum, Chandos, etc. In general these companies do not allow their content to be available via streaming services. So is the source of your classical music crap!
I beg to differ. Qobuz offers many great recordings. Via Qobuz I just listened to Bartok’s Concerto for Orchestra performed by the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic conducted by Canellakis, a 2023 Pentatone recording, and it is stunning. This is just one of many examples I could mention.
I wouldn’t say your observations are wrong, I’ve never listened to any streaming service. However the OP might try a known source such as the one you identified or a bought one before adjusting the DAC or cables.
Hi guys, thanks for your replies. I’ve just finished an intensive listening session lasting several hours First of all: I thought I had already aligned the speakers optimally, but I keep noticing that even slight changes to the angle of rotation make a significant difference. So now they are no longer angled as much and are also standing on Audioplan anti-spikes, previously on Oehlbach acoustic absorbers. A noticeable improvement. That’s why I suspect that the room acoustics are probably the limiting factor. Or at least the most significant one. (off-topic: Do I need another room - that’s it.) Not rocket science, I know. @cdboy Good input, thank you.
I also approached different recordings with a very sensitive ear. And although I’ve already heard references, there are still recordings that are better (my comparison piece today was essentially the Christmas Oratorio). Thanks to @PHC12. And @Daan: The recommendation of Bartok’s concerts is great.
Yes, it could be the speakers. I already had the Supernait 3, but it makes the bass thicker. The Nuprime St-10 should actually be fast enough for the precise reproduction of classical music. My room is prone to bass hall, which could lead to blurring. I listened very closely to cello passages, also in comparison with my Grado RS1 on the Lehmann Linear. It is noticeably more precise. So the streamer and the nDAC can do it. That leaves the power amplifier (perhaps a different preamplifier in front of it, not the Lehmann PreOut), the speakers, and the room. We’re not talking about something you can’t hear, but rather about 5-10% that I can hear. For example the aria “Ich will nur Dir zu Ehren leben”, in the recording with Gardiner, Rilling and Richter. There are clear differences in tempo and instrumentation. The cello must be precise. . However, it is one thing through headphones and quite another through the speakers. It is a bit like the last hectic minute of the World Cup final.
And that’s where the journey continues. But I’m already in a better position after the small changes. I also ran the audio test CD. Everything is set correctly.
Also have a listen to Gardiners recording of BWV 51 Jauchtzet Gott in alle landen - especially the Halleluia. It has a lot of counterpoint too and is perhaps one of the most beautiful virtuoso pieces for Soprano.
So many aspects need to come together to get very complex pieces of music to work well in a hi fi system. It’s that 10% of demanding pieces that all the effort and cost goes into…
If it’s working well through headphones your source is probably good enough, however often a better source can overcome weaknesses further down the chain, so not entirely simple. It’s the kind of situation that can lead to wholesale and expensive changes…
From what you describe it sounds like either the amplification isn’t controlling the speakers well enough or your room is interacting too much. I would be tempted to put the Supernait back in and working with room treatments to control that bass?
First of all: I thought I had already aligned the speakers optimally, but I keep noticing that even slight changes to the angle of rotation make a significant difference. So now they are no longer angled as much and are also standing on Audioplan anti-spikes, previously on Oehlbach acoustic absorbers. A noticeable improvement. That’s why I suspect that the room acoustics are probably the limiting factor. Or at least the most significant one. (off-topic: Do I need another room - that’s it.) Not rocket science, I know.