From this…
doubt the issue was specifically due to clear vinyl, but a pressing, mastering or anything in between error.
The reason I say that is that “clear” is vinyl’s original or natural state. To have any other colour, a dye must be added to the mix for the pellets/puck mix. This includes what many think is vinyl’s “natural” colour of black. It’s just dyed black.
But I agree one should not tolerate a poor example for that kind of money.
The feedback/reviews on Discogs don’t look great with many reporting surface noise, pops and clicks etc. I hope you get a better replacement copy.
I read recently that colouring vinyl has an impact on its composition. The article identified black as the best colour due to the way the black pigment affects the composition of the vinyl.
I have had a few clear and white vinyl pressing in recent years, including my original copy of the studio version of Closure Continuation.
Honestly no exaggeration, every one of them has had to be replaced, some more than once…
my experience is somewhat different. I have clear vinyl copes that are very good both in sound quality and low surface noise.
I think it is true that some dyes affect the vinyl but in my own experience black although the most common in my collection is no better than other colours. To me although there is some truth in colours having different affects it is minimal and due to us being used to seeing black it has become something of an urban myth. I also think picture disks have helped to create the antipathy to vinyl colours but picture disks use a different process which does adversely affect sound quality.
I think I have only one opaque white vinyl LP a Cat Stevens reissue (Mathew & Son) but it plays fine, not the best in sound quality but I don’t have an original to compare it to.
I hate it when that happens and sadly it seems to happen far too many times.
As a result I have really curtailed my new vinyl purchases and I try as best as i can to do a bit of research first although sources of information are a little sparse. Discogs can sometimes be useful if it is a more popular item and in your case with PT live album, there are many people complaining of it being a very poor pressing so you are certainly not alone.
It then begs the question of who exactly is doing any sort of QC on these releases!
I know it’s no consolation but I have recently been dipping a toe in to a few audiophile pressings and have certainly been sometimes left disappointed. As an example I paid £53 for the Analogue Productions single disc pressing of Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “Second Helping” and the truth is it sounds completely cr@p and I’d have been better off saving £53 and streaming it or playing my old CD.
The problem with a lot of these discs is that we get lured in by the enthusiasm of a few youtube “record reviewers” who are almost certainly sent a quantity of free audiophile records in return for praising whatever the latest Mo-Fi, Analogue Productions, One Step etc is gifted their way.. It’s a ridiculous con and I’m not falling for it anymore!
That’s not to say that there aren’t some great sounding audiophile records and indeed some honest record reviewers, but in my view, the prices being charged for some of these releases are insane. Rhino Hi-Fi, Verve and BlueNote are the three labels who do seem to consistently do a fantastic job at a reasonable price. I also don’t mind paying for exceptional classical and jazz records on the Chasing the Dragon label which are so good they are startling - even though they’re around £55. The latest Fleetwood Mac issues from Rhino are all excellent and around £40 a disc.
I’m just being a whole lot more selective about buying vinyl nowadays though, primarily due to cost. It’s got to be an album I totally love with no filler tracks and it’s got to be very well recorded to justify bothering with vinyl. The truth is on Naim’s recent streamer lines (imho) from the NDX2 onwards, streaming on Tidal took a giant leap forward. There’s no need now to rip, download or store music locally which means there’s no real reason to buy it unless you love the artist or album.
In short yes I do want to own Floyd, Deacon Blue, Del Amitri, Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, Kate Bush and other core obsessions on vinyl, but I’m not really bothered anymore about owning for example albums by a band like Keane, who I quite like and occasionally listen to, but streaming will do me just fine… In fact it’s better because I can play just their best tracks more easily which would be a chore on vinyl.
While we’re on the subject of audiophile releases I’m also no big fan of 45RPM double LP’s. Yes the 2 disc FM Rumours mastered by Kevin Gray is sensational and I do love it, but I only bought it because it’s one of my all time favourite albums and I am prepared to put up with getting up every 12 mins to change sides to have such a spectacular copy of a much loved album. I do have about 5 other vinyl 33rpm copies and multiple CD copies for when I’m feeling lazy!
Unfortunately vinyl pricing is getting pretty unaffordable for me at least. Acoustic Sounds UHQR’s are £180-£200 a pop, Mofi One-Steps are £100, while even regular Acoustic Sounds pressings are often £55-£80+ in the UK (compared to $40 in the USA). I admire those with the resources to spend £200 on a single album, but when Tidal on a good streamer is so good I do have to question the merits of such purchases, at least for me.
I hope the greed of the record industry doesn’t kill off the golden goose. Wonder if I’m alone in having to become more selective about what I buy though?
JonathanG
For jazz, the Craft or Classic and Tone Poet from Blue Note are excellent… for rock, the Rhino are not bad.
Indeed. Although I do not buy so called audiophile versions and make do with normal (read cheaper) versions if buying new. A lot of my record purchases are of used versions and I like it that way.
A well recorded, mastered then pressed record is very good I do not feel the need to spend significantly more for audiophile versions it seems a con to me.
I’ve had a couple of flawed vinyl purchases recently. One was a warped record from Sam Records, which I wouldn’t have expected. The other was non-fill near the start of a Decca LP. Disappointing.
No you’re not.
I am very conscious that vinyl is getting more and more expensive, I love playing and listening to vinyl and it my preferred medium but my purchases nowadays are few and far between, I have to really really really want that LP to splash the cash.
I’m more than happy with my collection, I don’t feel that there are huge gaps I need to fill, I just keep an eye on what is out and about and if there are bargains to be had.
Very much my approach this last year or two. Over 100 downloads purchased via Bandcamp/Qobuz but only 5 “new” LPs. I have to say all 5 have been very good but I am much more selective
My first question would be first : why buy a digital album transferred on vinyl and costing several time the digital album or cd?
Sorry to ask.
Because I like Vinyl and the musical delivery of my LP12…
Because it will sound better.
The argument that only records that are analogue are any good is wrong in my view. It does not matter what the source of the master recording is, as long as it is faithfully made into a good pressing in the end.
Some mostly pirate copies have been made from the low res CD but mostly records that have been made from digital sources have been created from high resolution digital files.
I doubt as an agitator you are sorry to ask.
My personal experience, almost all of my best sounding LPs are black. But a few color vinyl I found to also sound nice (like there’s green colored Rod Stewart album sounded nice to me, tho’ I kinda think it could also because I like his music)
But never, never ever buy a “pictured vinyl”. There’re a few pictured vinyls (I remember, two of them, the most atrocious sounding of Mamma Mia & Lion King soundtracks) that sit nicely on my collection and surely will never ever get played anymore.
All the old problems are back, and made worse by the sales gimmick of coloured or transparent vinyl, which I see are very popular on Bandcamp, when I buy an album. Vinyl records were/are in black material for a technical reason. But I have read a high percentage of LP’s never get played.
I believe the record companies are damaging the Vinyl market with their greed. The CD, I read in the Guardian is making a comeback due to cost.
Personally I do not want to go back to the past, and I am happy that a high resolution digital album costs €10 most of the time. Modern digital files sound much better than the old LP in my opinion.
I don’t deny that some albums, recorded in digital first, then transferred on vinyl, can sound very good. I have some. But for me, they don’t sound better than the digital files.
The reason i stopped buying them.
If someone has a streamer on lower quality than the turntable rig, I may understand.
With my Nds/ 2X 555 ps / Melco N1zh2, the P10/ Lyra Kleos / Ear phono doesn’t sound better for those albums.
My experience only, not a statement.
The thing that strikes me is that the higher and higher you go with CD, streaming or vinyl the more similar they all sound as (I suspect) they all converge on the original master recording/tape. There’s no question though that digital and streaming in particular is the great leveller i.e. you can get a performance that is 80-90% accurate compared to the very best in the world at much lower cost. With vinyl you have to pay heavily for every single 1% increment in performance once you get above the level of say a basic Gyro/LP12 or P10.
I am still getting to grips with the SME 35 to be honest, so I will need a lot more time with it comparing it against the NDX2 to make any kind of real judgement. I just haven’t spent time compaing the same track from the same mastering on the SME and then the NDX2 because the truth is I’m too busy just playing records on it and enjoying hearing new things I hadn’t noticed before, which is quite a thrill!
My take is that both vinyl and streaming can sound absolutely stunning at times and disappointing at others and the quality of the original recording and the mastering probably in truth makes more difference to the reproduction quality than the difference between the NDX2 and a nice turntable.
For those questioning the merits of bothering with vinyl I would say that the benefits of vinyl are:
Of course all these benefits come at a cost though!
JonathanG
…and that is exactly the ‘Raison d’être’ of the modern day vinyl enthusiast😊
I agree with all your points, but it’s the 8 and 9 that make me prefer vinyl to digital… the sound is more dynamic, more natural with vinyl. I specify that my system is analog from the deck to the ATC.
Why do I often hear that we want to get closer to analog with digital… so much listen to analog!
