@Bjorn - Very well put. Thank you…!!
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Good evening everyone,
I recently posted a message, on another thread, which began with the plea “Please, please, stop!”, in a situation where the thread had drifted toward the bizzare.
My position is not so definitive this time, but I do have a similar plea.
For better or for worse, the OP has initiated a most complex and sensitive thread and it has attracted many positive and some negative responses. I have no doubt whatsoever that many correspondents and “silent” readers have felt comfort, identification, sympathy and empathy in what has been disclosed in the thread (please let’s not say “shared”!), whilst others have felt that all of this is nonsense, or would be better either unsaid, or published elsewhere.
Here, I must express my deepest sympathy for Richard Dane. Whilst he (you) has (have) impressive knowledge and experience on all things hi-fi, I suspect that he (you) didn’t really foresee expertise in the area of depression and anxiety as a pre-requisite for the role of Forum Moderator.
Consequently, my plea to forum members is - don’t be too critical of Richard, or of anyone else. This thread is incredibly sensitive - some have hinted at removing themselves from something much more significnt than hi-fi, so, be kind. Of course, there will be those who read this and raise their eye-brows, sneer, laugh, shrug their shoulders, scoff, jeer, etc., etc., but, beyond being kind, accepting and understanding, alternative approaches have the potential to be very damaging indeed.
I will not be burdening you with my own experiences, approaches, attitudes, explanations, or solutions. As Johnnie said “I think I understand a little bit about how you feel about some things. It’s none of by business how you feel about some other things and I don’t give a damm about how you feel about some of the things.”.
Having said that (and acknowledging my own issues), as an inveterate educator and know-it-all, I must endorse the power of physical activity, diet, music, kindness, the outdoors and one or two admittedly oversimplified Bhuddist beliefs.
Best wishes and be kind,
Brian D.
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Nice post Brian D.
We also have the problem with internet chat sites where it’s quite easy to misconstrue comments and take offence when that was not the intent. It seems unlikely that was the case here from various responses.
I’ve never had any concerns about the moderation here, just that the process sometimes either deletes a whole swathe of useful information or renders a thread somewhat confusing if you’ve missed posts which have been deleted.
It’s Naim’s site and RD moderates sensibly according to site rules. This can’t be easy, and I suspect it is often tedious or frustrating so I apologise to all parties for inadvertently dragging up the subject of the deleted posts as it probably hasn’t helped pull us back together as a group.
There will always be personality clashes of some kind or reactions which inflame matters when online posting is concerned, we just all need to pull back a little and extend the olive branches accepting that we’re all different and will not agree on everything.
Something trivial to me may be offensive to others and so forth - I’ve experienced this recently and it’s ultimately rewarding to reflect on such things as our own personal beliefs don’t necessarily align with fellow posters.
There are many areas when unfettered discussion could be extremely interesting yet highly polarised (political themes primarily but far from the only one), so as much as many would be to happy to engage and debate it’s content not suited to a site such as this.
Anyhow, back to the thread topic…
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That was one of the points I was moderated for. 
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Quite possibly, but the thing is not to take it personally as forum rules are just that and things get moderated according to those rules, and RD had a tough job.
It’s almost certainly in my view mostly about brand image but maybe there are legal concerns too and moderation potentially protects everyone if you think about it.
We’ve lost some fascinating threads over the years, especially the covid related one where the positive posts probably outweighed the negatives but it probably became too much to moderate. There was another years ago where I lamented loss of a fun political discussion show on Thursday nights on BBC 1. I really enjoyed it as did many others but the political comments killed it off.
I can see from your previous posts that you still seem quite angry at what’s happened in the thread, you’ll understand I can’t really comment without seeing what you posted or the responses which in themselves also may have contravened forum rules. I can’t comment on either side of the argument.
The anger/frustration that comes across in a few of your recent posts is genuine I’m sure but possibly misdirected. Could these feelings/reactions be related to your own wellbeing issues/experiences? They may well be and if so that’s not your fault, but if not it’s probably best to avoid being confrontational with posts you disagree with.
I think the OP’s feeling was that he didn’t want highly negative comments (from anyone for that matter), rather than suggesting he didn’t want comments at all.
Frankly, it’s difficult to always post positively (and I LOVE to moan), but you could as suggested either start a new post from a different perspective or perhaps temper contributions to this one?
Sorry if this doesn’t help, but I’m trying to heal some wounds here.
Best wishes,
AC
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Hi @Alley_Cat
Thanks for reasonable support and trying to take a balanced view.
The OP asked for good or bad experiences and that’s obviously not what was wanted.
The point you mentioned in the quote I made was very similar to what i said except you got a like for it and I got moderated.
Not wanting to face whats real in situations might be the reason for it but I don’t get asking for something then throw the toys out if it’s not what was wanted.
They wanted good or bad and I had an answer for the very point made but wasn’t allowed to build up to a proper reply.
It’s probably best if nobody talks about this anymore as I have no interested in being the instigator of any argument.
But it’s unrealistic for people to expect me to accept being bullied out.
Or the trolls trying to draw me in.
Good luck to all and don’t ask for advice if you don’t want the real answers.
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Mental Health and depression, where do I start ?
I lost my first job in February 1986 due to something I should not have done. I have no memories of this, because, in May 1986, I was run over and suffered very serious head injuries. The head injuries resulted in total paralysis of the right side of my body, and very serious memory issues, I’d lost about 6 months of my memories.
When I finally was discharged from the hospital, I arrived home, and to my amazement, I found I owned a Pink Triangle turntable! The PT was purchased about a month before my accident, and I had forgotten all about it. I still have the PT, although it has received many upgrades by Peter Swain of #Cymbiosis, Peter can do more than just upgrade and build LP12’s!
I started college in 1987, for a three year course, and then another for a year. I achieved two HNC’s at the end of the day. Not bad for someone who had difficulty writing and remembering things. Started work, but nothing to do with my qualifications!
I have worked through to around 2015 with various jobs, but sadly, I was diagnosed with various health issues, I have had well controlled Asthma since my younger days. I was diagnosed with Wolfe Parkinson White, a rare but treatable heart issue. I had the treatment, and the WPW was resolved.
I also had a diagnosis of diabetes, Following the WPW operation, I was diagnosed with a HOCM, basically, I have a “fat heart”, congenital issue, as well as AF. I had a messy divorce, I have four children with my X wife, it gives me pleasure when I see them. Sadly, they always ask me for money, but I don’t mind helping out when I can.
I have not had a job since 2015, I have lived on benefits since then. The first couple of years I did very little, and just sat around a lot of the time, I got disability benefits. My GP gave me one antidepressant, and then something happened; they gave me diazepam. I am on the lowest dosage for this medication, although when I started on it, I was on a higher dosage. The problem with the medication is that it removes all emotions, not just the bad ones. I was at the birth of my last son, and I felt no emotion and had to fake it.
During the lockdown period, I rediscovered my enjoyment of music, discovered the pleasures of streaming. I also discovered that I have to be more careful when handling my LP’s!
I have found, and this is advice, that to avoid feeling anxious and depressed, do something! My retired parents look after there great-grandchildren, and my dad has written books. For the past four years, I have been taking some part-time education courses. I might be in my mid-50s, but it’s never too late to learn, strange when you are learning from people that are younger than you, though.
Keeping busy, whatever it is, will reduce your feelings of depression and anxiety, although when it gets to the end of the term, my anxiety seems to increase with all the deadlines due!
If your mind is busy doing things, like enjoying music, those bad feelings will just go to the back of your mind.
My anxiety levels run high when I visit Cymbiosis, I will listen to something on one of their open days and fall in love with it. I have to keep things in perspective, though. My next upgrade will be a replacement cartridge. Then maybe a used NAC282 while I can still get one, I really don’t like the looks of the new gear, progress? Who knows? Certainly a magnet for dust!
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I apologize if I misunderstood anything. It is indeed a serious matter.
Best
M
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It’s important I feel to reiterate here that the rules of the forum and its moderation are to provide a framework that ensures a reasonably safe environment for the members to primarily share their passion for music and for Naim. This builds a sense of community and so of course there’s a desire to discuss a much wider range of topics (hence the Lounge), and also the feeling that it’s safe to seek help and reassurance amongst friends.
That’s fine up to a point, and I’m sure it can provide some welcome catharsis along the way. However, it’s worth reiterating that this is not the best place to seek help beyond straightforward guidance for mental health issues. That’s the work for trained Counsellors and Psychotherapists. While some us might be trained in these fields, this forum is not the right environment to practice. So please do share your experience here, but if you are looking for real help then I would urge you to seek out a proper accredited Counsellor or Psychotherapist. If you’re in the UK then one of the best places to start is the BACP (British Association for Counselling & Psychotherapy). There you can find out more about what type of counselling might be best for you and also find counsellors in your area.
In other countries I’m sure there may well be similar such Associations, so please do seek them out if you feel you need some help.
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Sorry to take thing off topic but I have to agree about the comments on HR Departments. As well as the two faced kind there are also some who don’t disguise the fact they are evil.
I worked on a production line as a general operative for an eight year period after spending over 25 years in a food safety role. This role ended when the EU decreed self regulation would replace independent inspections from government agencies.
The production line was a real shock to the system but bills need to be paid …
Anyway, long story short, I developed an RSI. I used the Occupational Health Dept and they provided regular physiotherapy which helped a lot. Then the physiotherapist left to spend six months in Thailand and was slow to be replaced. So slow he actually returned to his post after his stint in Thailand …
In the meantime my RSI worsened. I saw my GP who provided a sick note recommending modified duties. The line manager said I either did my job or went off sick, there was no in-between so I went off sick. I returned to my GP and he organised a brace for my hand which at this point was barely usable. So bad in fact I couldn’t take the top off a bottle of milk.
Two weeks into my sick leave there was a knock at the door and I was hand delivered an “invitation” to meet with HR the following day. The guy must have thought he’d hit the jackpot as the house was covered in scaffolding as we were having new windows fitted. When I opened the door with the brace on my hand you could see him visibly deflate.
The interview was nothing other than an attempt to intimidate me into returning to work. I eventually returned after two months and was given a written warning. I put in a grievance because my absence was caused by them. It was rejected.
I eventually made an industrial injury claim. In it, my solicitor outlined the intimidatory tactics and the lack of support during the period there was no physiotherapy available. We won the claim (they offered no defence) and as well as that pay-off I was offered early retirement. The trade union advised me against submitting the grievance and also advised against the industrial injury claim. The whole place was run on bullying and intimidation from shop floor right through to the head of HR.
I was so glad to get out of there and often wonder how different it could have been had it happened when I wasn’t in as good a place mentally.
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The trade unions are there to ensure the company follows the laws and company procedures correctly. The best trade unions are the independent ones, an employer has no choice but to recognise them in personal grievances, or disciplinary actions. I was a member of Solidarity and would recommend the Workers of England Union. An independent union has no fears about upsetting the management, I was going to use stronger language than “upsetting”
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I was briefly a shop steward for Unison 20 odd years ago so had some knowledge of my rights and, I would call it the need, to lodge the grievance and industrial injury claim.
The shop steward I had at the time, though a lovely guy, was far too timid to be a Unite rep. Indeed, when I got the warning I referred to, his response was “don’t worry it’ll only be on your record for a year”. He seemed surprised at my response of “If you’re not going to fight my corner you may as well leave”. Well, words to that effect anyway.
Thankfully, I have no need of a trade union now.
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Things like this thread do have a very useful function, which we refer to as ‘peer support’; and, unless we feel it inappropriate for the client’s individual character or circumstances, then we will signpost them to peer support groups where this is possible.
However as Richard says it is vitally important to understand the differences between peer support and professionally guided therapy, and important to understand the limits of peer support. It’s main use is as an adjunct to ongoing therapy; trying to rely peer support alone (without the professional support) is definitely not the best approach, and can be really quite unwise in some circumstances.
In the UK, BACP and Psychology Today have good searchable indexes to help find properly qualified professionals. The Psychology Today index allows for searching on a wider range of specialisations, but isn’t a regulatory / training body in the same way as BACP, so there is more onus on the client to check the person’s professional qualifications before entrusting your mind to their attentions. Note than in the UK (and many other countries), unlike for medical doctors and qualified nurses, there is no formal legally enforced framework as who can call themselves a counsellor or therapist and work in those fields - so do check the qualifications.
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There are threads on audiophile tweaks, like isolation devices, absorbing panels, powerblocks…
I see that thread as a discussion about tweaks against anxiety and depression, not a call for help, which would be inappropriate on that forum. In that case only professionals can help, and certified ones, as there are so many fake psychologists or gurus of all kinds.
Fresh air, mind occupation, openness to others, exercise, light evening food, good sleep…are the tweaks.
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You’ve lost me there, perhaps in translation.
Although it didn’t work out at the time for you I’ve often been sceptical of fees for trade unions and professional bodies, but they are really invaluable for employment concerns as I’ve found over the last few years - you don’t miss the support they can give until you really need it and in many cases they won’t support you for events prior to being a member.
There are so many nuances to employment law you cannot possibly know them as an employee, and when you want someone to back you up you need a professional experienced team to do so.
Something I’ve come to realise in the last few years is that even if you have insight into the fact your mental wellbeing is not where it should be you really don’t see how far you’ve fallen down that rabbit hole and hit rock bottom until you feel better again.
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I’d forgotten I made this post, but I think chickens are coming home to roost for many people, myself included:
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This too in hindsight, was it all about low mood?
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Reading this thread has started me thinking since its inception. It does show how each of us are different and react to events in our life according to individual circumstances. My experience, training and work in the last 10 years before I moved here to France was as a counsellor. Two years post grad, msc in ptsd diagnosis, treatment and disaster handling. This followed on from my own traumatic experience and the help I received.
To answer one response on here I still regard myself as an amateur in understanding another’s individual view of the world and their response to it. Unless I am working with the individual I am as amateur as the next human so this is my general comment rather than specific to anyone’s individual story on here.
I have found that sharing experiences of both traumatic experiences and how to deal with them is very much needed. We all have a need to be heard and a need to know we are not alone in our response to difficult events. This thread allows that to happen. On the other hand the warning to not rely on this type of thread for a personal solution is apposite. When we are at the bottom of the depressive cycle and struggle to just get out of bed, advice to exercise, or take up a hobby, or attend a concert isn’t helpful. It can also magnify the feeling of inadequacy that many of us can feel at such times, when everyone else appears to be coping.
Richard wisely summed it up when he said
“it’s worth reiterating that this is not the best place to seek help” and
“So please do share your experience here, but if you are looking for real help then I would urge you to seek out a proper accredited Counsellor or Psychotherapist”
Skeptikal made the similar point.
My own personal view is that this thread should continue, should be monitored if Richard is willing but most importantly of all should be viewed by us all as a pointer to how things can improve over time, especially with help. Again my personal view is that we never ‘get over’ our traumatic experience but we can learn to integrate it into our memory and manage it in the present.
The last thing I want to say is that all, that is all, of the contributors have added something positive and I thank them for their bravery.
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