Maybe a little off topic in a 2960 / EE8 thread but on the subject of daisy chaining network switches, I notice on the Bonn Silent Angel N8 switch web page (which i understand is basically an EE8 under a different brand name, from the same Chinese factory), they actually recommend daisy chaining N8s to achieve lower noise levels - see the section lower down the description entitled:
Anyone on here tried daisy chaining 2 x EE8s, 2 x N8s or a mix of both?
I can’t think why unless the switch is not mains earthed properly… in which case it could help reduce common mode currents flowing in connected Ethernet leads which would not be ideal. From when I last looked at the EE8 it is a very basic network switch with no ability to network filter other than elementary unicast switching which by definition all switches do.
I suggest Best use a switch that is mains earthed properly to reduce common mode noise. Unfortunately some switches with external DC supplies are not earth grounded and have a floating earth. Absolutely fine for data, not so good for some audio applications. I feel if this is a big problem in ones setup then one is perhaps better off using wifi
Yes, same result for me with 2960 + ER.
But two Ciscos upstream of the ER (with the 2960s in PD/PoE mode) is a definite improvement. Worth a try?
I have the PhoenixNet now….
I tried the ER / linear ps with it and found the PhoenixNet alone more musical…
But yes, in your case, if 2 Cisco and ER give better results, and if you don’t bother having all that chain, it’s worth trying.
RJ45 coupler arrived this morning so I fitted it to my Chord Music streaming cable as the last 1.5m before ND555. Works a treat Simon. Thanks again!
Well that partially answers my question @NoNaim thank you. Looks like 2 x EE8 and a Forester LPSU? I’d be interested to hear your perception on what improvements that brought (assuming you started with 1 x EE8?). Especially as EE don’t recommend an LPSU but Silent Angel do. I’m also very interested in the SA Munich M1T streamer, but that’s another thread!
I originally had one EE8, then added the F1, followed by another EE8. At each stage I have noticed a improvement or colouration change in the sound quality, probably more with F1. However the second EE8 is in all probability is still bedding in with certain parts of the full loom Vodka ethernet cables. As I have done this in stages, it has been a gradual cost increase. If the F1 did not have two outputs, then I would probably not have bothered with a second EE8. However, it was one of those itches that had to be scratched and there was some spare real estate on the Fraim shelf, waiting to be filled. What I think I notice more than anything is how vocals and certain instruments seem to be more fixed in space in the sound stage. Obviously, I could be imagining this and writing utter nonsense, 
This all gets into the old law of diminishing returns and would I purchase again. If, I had to purchase the Vodka, F1 and E8 all st once, then probably not.
I guess, only you can decide
Hi Frenchrooster,
Sorry if you are feeling a little crestfallen today. Unfortunately your team only turned up very late in the proceedings but my heavens when they did what a brilliant match
When you say that the PhoenixNET feed sounded better without the ER/ LinearPS I’m surprised that the PhoenixNET wouldn’t react positively to the substantially improved input coming from the ER or did you have the ER after the PN?
It was a very involving match, thanks. I very rarely follow football but couldn’t miss that one.
As for daisy chaining, I tried the ER / top MCRU before the PhoenixNet and after. It was maybe a bit more dynamic and open, but lacked some magic and musicality vs the PhoenixNet alone. My ears….
I use 3 Audioquest diamond lan cables and a Melco N1zh2. Nds and Melco both connected to the PhoenixNet.
The PhoenixNet is connected to a fiber router, powered by a linear ps.
I’ve revisited a Cisco 2960 PD and it lasted no more than about 5 minutes. In my system the EE 8Switch is best directly connected from my TP-Link AC2100 router, sounding crisper, fresher and just altogether more coherent, regardless of what Ethernet cables are used in the mix.
Exactly what I found with ER and PhoenixNet. They sound more coherent, livelier, richer , fresher when alone.
I recently ordered a Cisco 2960 switch off fleebay, partly because I need a switch for my house extension, and partly curious of the comments on here. It arrived yesterday morning, so inserted it between my BT router and EE8 switch. I didn’t have chance to listen yesterday but I was quickly able to check it was working.
This morning I started with a few favourite tracks and was shocked at just how drastically it had messed with the sound quality. It was just plain flat with a shallow two dimensional image and ‘one note’ bass. It was literally like someone had hung a towel in front of the speakers. I almost started to worry that I’d messed with something fundamental but a simple switch of ethernet cables, back to how it was with the router to switch, and normality was instantly restored.
So, for me, I’m my system, another ‘daisy chained’ switch just didn’t work. And for the record it had a negative impact on SQ that was almost off the scale!
I’ve gone back to one EE8 also
The Cisco 2960 catalyst switch (in any guise or configuration), for me, in any of my network systems, bloated the music in a way i just couldn’t enjoy. Going direct to my router, sometimes even wireless, or purchasing the EE 8Switch, lay all that fiasco to bed long ago for myself personally.
Going full loom AQ Vodka, with the EE 8Switch direct from my router, has given me ‘state of art’ streaming IMHO.
Still an undoubted improvement here. Each (system) to their own I guess.
G
What would also be interesting to speculate is what is it about daisy-chaining that could make the fidelity palpably worse?
G
Hi Graeme,
There are several reasons why it could sound worse
Bear in mind that the better we can make the network feed into the DAC, the better the music will sound. Better is defined in terms of noise, power supply quality, timing accuracy (jitter) and the amount of vibration at all stages of the network
A network is a series of devices that transports and converts the data stream into suitable forms, like packets, radio waves, light pulses, USB packets etc. Ideally, each step of the process needs to improve the stream. For example, there’s no point taking a stream produced by a super low noise power supply and passing to the following device with a far noisier supply. Similarly, there’s no point passing the stream along a low loss cable, followed by a higher loss, inferior cable.
So getting back to the Cisco switch, what seems to be happening is that the stream from the router is superior to what is coming out of the Cisco. This could relate to excess noise from the Cisco circuitry, placing the Cisco somewhere where it picks up a lot of vibration, RFI/EMI, using cables that have metal connectors, which transmit ground plane noise between router and the Cisco, poor quality, noisy or high impedance power supply, damage to or contamination of the RJ45 connectors, incorrectly set up buffer sizes or other set points within the Cisco (I believe its a managed switch) to name a few possibilities.
Thanks.
G
