That is what I would have thought, Simon.
I did change several bits of the system at the same time, but it did appear that a wifi extender with dual bandwidths caused problems for the Naim app / NDS ( as mentioned here), as well as the cable change. Naim support are not keen on dual bandwidths either.
Just glad it’s working fine and sounding great. And as HH says : as it should be!
@dishthefrog and @Simon-in-Suffolk thank you for your replies.
My set up is as follows
NDS running 4.8
Ethernet AudioQuest Cat7 Cinnamon 10m connected to NETGEAR PoE Switch 8 Port Gigabit Ethernet Unmanaged Network Switch (GS308P). It was via Port 7 but I have just chained to Port 2 to see if it is a port issue.
Switch is connected via Cat 6 to Velop Node, which is connected to Gigaclear Fibre 300
Naim App is latest version 6.5.1 on iPad running iOS 17…1.2
Problems have been
- NDS disappears from App, but Muso Qb seems to be consistently there
- when playing for UPnP seems stable but sometimes playing from Tidal, it will just stop and then the app freezes and NDS disappears
- Often, when I select an album on Tidal the NDS says ‘can’t play’ but after an app reboot and reconnect to the NDS, it will then play the same album.
I can get the NDS to reconnect to the app, by selecting Radio on the remote and once it plays the radio (usually after 15 seconds) I can reconnect to NDS and Tidal
5e NDS used to be ver6 stable but is has been a combination of the firmware upgrade or moving from BT Hub/ Netgear to Gigaclear/Velop/Netgear
I don’t have a problem with any other connected devices or internet services such as Amazon, Netflix, YouTube etc
I don’t think it is the aol as Muso Qb is stable,
I don’t think it is the Gigaclear connection as that wouldn’t make the NDS disappear from the app.
It plays UPnP ok, so I don’t think it is the switch or cable, unless there is something in the Tidal signalling different to UPnP
After changing the port all was going well with about two hours of playing, then it stopped streaming, and ‘connecting’ showing on the NDS, then a message on the app ‘being used by another device’… using the remote, I switched to radio, and then after 15 secs, we are working again
Thanks
Danny
The room dropping problem appeared after the latest firmware update and it won’t likely stop. I was at least able to reduce the frequency of occurrence but I found Qobuz to be more stable than Tidal on the legacy platform.
I’ve had issues with streaming internet radio at times - via the Naim app. However, of late, it’s been pretty good. Have posted about it before and got the “it must be your network” response (it wasn’t/isn’t). Never have issues with Airplay.
My NDS far from working perfectly. The firsr years no issues, but last couple years many problems. Lately always dissappearing from the app. «Another app connected…bla bla» …It seems Naim can’t support their first streamers any more. Pity. NDS very expensive when I bought it in 2016. I should never sold my CDS3.
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Only issue I have ever had is the screen is fading now. I will have it replaced next year, and maybe a service. I have no desire to change it.
I use it wired, from a Netgear switch and BT Home hub. I control it from an Android phone and iPad at different times.
Bruce
Thought I’d provide an update.
After a quick chat with Iain at Audience in Bath, he suggest I plus the NDS directly into my router to bypass the switch (don’t know why I didn’t think of that 
).
All good, no disappearing from the app, and no interruptions in playing.
I had forgotten a long time ago, I had changed my switch from a Bellini 5 port to a Netgear 8 port, so I’ve reverted back to the Bellini and all seems good so far,
I have no idea what the issue is between the NDS and the Netgear switch as the switch works fine with all other streaming services to other devices such as Netflix, Sky etc.
So, fingers crossed and I’ll keep you posted, for those also having problems, try another switch, you never know !
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NDS seem to be very sensitive to network setups IMO. Both compatibility and sound quality.
Connecting directly to broadband routers seems to solve most problems. Pity the NDS gets the bad press for network issues. I have a cable for the back of my router running up the garden to my cabin. It terminates at the Apple AirPort Express input socket and gives me a Wi-Fi hotspot. The NDS is connected directly by cat5 to the AE output socket. I have no problems with the NDS. It never disconnects and never disappears from the app. It works perfectly. I use Spotify now but tried Tidal for a month. Wasn’t impressed enough to ditch Spotify.
Thank for your replies.
Another quick update, it didn’t like the alternative switch either.
With thanks to Iain at Audience, we have reinstalled the 4.8 firmware (just in case), changed and changed by router from Linksys Velop to Tenda, to allow me to connect directly into the router,
So far so good after four days on playing
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For what its worth. I just found out the Lindemann Limetree Network streamer or Bridge use the Stream unlimited 810 streaming board which is a successor to 800 board ND5XS2, NDX2, ND555. Might be worth a trial of the Lindeman network bridge II then for my NDS since they can be found for around 400GBP on the used market.
My NDS (from 2016) has worked perfectly since it replaced a ND5XS, even when it was on a NP5XS power supply, before 555DR and now the dual supplies for Digital and Analogue circuitry.
UPnP server has been Asset running on a RPi2 running DietPi, in a very stripped out deployment (no WiFi, no GigaBit Ethernet etc).
Though the NDS is normally served by a SonoreUPnP running on a UltraRenedu (SonicOrbiterOS 2.8) through Roon. Here the NDS is presented with a UPnP stream of PCM WAV or DSD64 over DoP as the final step, with a local Roon Server handling all the format processing including MQA 1st unfold, local files, managing internet services (Tidal, Qobuz and internet Radio, including lossless). It also allows for DSP for Room & Headphone correction using Convolution filters and Parametric EQ. All this is run off-board from the NDS, on a powerful quad-core i7 NUC server (same board as a Nucleus+, just with faster memory & NVMe SSD), so the NDS has only the presented UPnP WAV stream to play and no other processing. The same mode that Naim use to demonstrate the NDS and still demonstrate the ND555, with a UPnP server.
Networking for the NDS is handled by a EtherREGEN, since 2019, with the NDS on the isolated ‘B’ port. RPi2 (Asset) & UltraRendu with downstream feed are on the ‘A’ ports, as a separate network subnet. But this just common sense network optimisation, just with this specialist switch. Now powered by a Farad3 power supply.
Music Library of over 7,000 albums, of which over 60% are in 24-bit or DSD format, are on NAS units, running on a Gigabit backbone switch.
And of course, through Roon can be accessed by other audio playback equipment in the house ‘upstairs’ and also while out or away via Roon ARC.
At present no other reasonable priced digital playback equipment touches the NDS in this setup. Only the full dCS setup heard at the Dublin HiFi show provided more, but that was many many times the cost and they couldn’t explain why they converted and upsampled to DSD256.
What other R2R DACs exist, and do they all use the same discontinued Brown Burr PCM1704 DAC chips as the NDS/ND555? Is everything else the same off-the-shelf ESS or AKM chip set?
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If you were going to do this, then the Holo Red would be a better option, taking a S/PDIF into the NDS DAC.
But this protocol support jitter, largely removed from asynchronous USB and LAN based connections.
Better to bridge the NDS
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Holo seem to lack roon end point support though. I’m looking into the bride from lindemann taking digital coax into NDS, not the streamer with an analogue out.
”The circuitry of the Limetree BRIDGE – designed around the powerful streaming platform (same as latest naim boxes use) – has been tuned for optimum signal quality. All music files are post-synchronized by an ultra precise FemtoClock. The data processed in this way are free from “jitter“, the most frequent cause of a poor digital playback quality. With many older DACs the Limetree BRIDGE’s exceptionally low-jitter digital signal produces an audible increase in sound quality.”
I’ve placed an order on a used Bridge II that use the latest Streamunlimited 810 board to connect to my NDS. Let’s see how things goes.
I am curious on what it will bring to the party. If the sound quality will improve or not.
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I have already tested the Lindemann Limetree Bridge II on my NDX 1 (connected with digital coax). I was hoping that this would solve the constant instability of my NDX (drop-outs etc.). I also expected that the latest Streamunlimited 810 board would harmonize very well with the NDX DAC. My experiences: The system works perfectly and is very stable. I also noticed an “objective” improvement of the sound: very clear, differentiated even with complex passages etc.
The big disadvantage, however, was that the Naim sound was lost. My NDX suddenly sounded more like a Linn system. Perhaps technically better but boring!!!
I don’t have this effect when I use BubbleUPNP/RPi. The NAIM sound is fully retained here.
My assumption: by-passing the built-in streaming platform seems not so easy without affecting the overall Naim sound signiture.
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Thanks! I even felt this when adding NDX2 to my NDS so synergy is a hard one.
Which streaming service did you evaluate with and what coax did you use?
I have the possibility to send it back so we will see how it sounds to my ears. I’ll also borrow a Primare NP5 MKII to see how that behaves in the same setup.
I once had a Lumin U1 mini on my 272/555 and that I liked. I’m looking for something performing at same level as NDS native streaming at a reasonable cost right now but with added compatibility since I’m not sure where I will go long term with streaming. I like the NDS a lot but being a fan of both Qobuz and Roon/Audirvana makes it bit tricky due to compatibility/stability/UI. Might grab a U2 mini when one become available in the used market.
Since I didn’t find NDX2 + 555PSDR good as NDS+555PSDR I believe 333 is not my thing either. But would love to try one out one day even though I believe best would be to have separate boxes for streaming and DAC since streaming move faster than companies can predict.
Mighty impressed with this little Lindemann Bridge II right now still using its standard AC/DC adapter. Super easy to get going. Currently evaluating Roon, Qobuz, Lindemann Bridge II to the coax RCA input on my NDS. The Lindemann app seems great too even though I use the Roon app right now which as always is superior to anything I’ve touched so far.
My NDS works fine, it is connected via an Ethernet cable to a Cisco switch, which is connected to Linksys access point that is fed by a fibre to premises Gigaclear wall box (router).
Prior to the Linksys the switch was connected direct to the Gigaclear router.
I’ve used Roon to control the NDS for some time; prior to Roon the Naim app sufficed, but I did not use Tidal. Once I committed to Roon I subscribed to Qobuz. I’ve never had an issue with the NDS, although it took a while to work out how best to run Roon.
How did you roonify your NDS?