Sorry Richard
Sat here listening to a loan SIA2-150 driving the SCM40s… early days but so far I think I like it. So compared to the SN2 I’d say more clinical and detailed and perhaps the treble a bit sweeter. The bass is the biggest difference though… upper bass has reduced but the lower end stuff is turned up. The funny thing is it seems like more bass below what I can hear. The floor’s trembling but it really doesn’t sound that loud. I’ll be honest the first 10 mins and I was thinking I don’t like this but after an hour of listening I’m starting to get into it more and more. The sound stage just sounds less muddled but you need to get used to the detail… it’s the SCM40 effect turned up a bit more 
excellent choice there! if i wasn’t skint and wedded to my nova id luv that combo. I use atc scm11 though so not too bad…! ATC amps are superb value for money and being mosfet they have a certain sweetness about them and masses of power and control.
4 hours listening now and, tbh, I think it’s better than the SN2!! Well, okay, it’s probably as good but in a different way. Even SWMBO spotted the change in the sound; the expression ‘less fuzzy’ 
At this stage I’m thinking goodbye SN2+HiCAP-DR and hello CA2/P1!
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Tha lack of deepest bass was one of the main things I noticed also with Naim. Naim DAC does this also. Only when you add external PSU, the bass hits lower but still clearly lacks compared to the active version I now use. I guess in Naim ladders you get the deepest bass when you climb up but the price for that is very steep. I must admit though that SN2, even with external PSU, just wasn’t enough power for 40’s.
I received Linn Silver XLR cables to connect Akurate DSM to SCM40A. Clear improvement over Mogami 2549. I’ve also fiddled more with the space optimisation. At this point the sound quality is on completely different level than before. I can hear so much more into the music and SCM40A plays everything so effortlessly with stunning power and dynamics when needed. It also plays better with lower volume, I can actually feel the bass then also. Feeling happy now!
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Interesting. There have been suggestions elsewhere that Naim tends to accentuate the upper bass, which I have assumed to be to emphasise the rhythmic part of the music and a characteristic of the “Naim sound”, This finding would seem to be consistent with that. Preference would depend whether you like your sound natural or inducing foot tapping - some people equate foot tapping with the music conveying emotion, though that is only the emotion induced by the beat, not the full emotional content of the music as written/played (depending of course on the music). To other people naturally reproduced music sounds better, while for some music deeper bass may be a significant part of conveying feeling, even though that might not be part of the beat.
I’m glad you agree with me, I was worried I was imagining it. I spent yesterday pm (day off to play with the demo amp) doing the swapping cables back and forth again and again thing, playing the same sections of music some half a dozen times. Then move to another track. Of course I was having to switch the amps off with every cable change over so there’s the issue of proper operating temperature but we’ll ignore that. Anyway there is a definite boost in upper bass with the SN2+HICAPDR and, with the ATC, it’s moved down the frequency range - you can feel it more in your stomach and through your feet with the ATC amp. IMHO I think the ATC amp is a better match for the SCM40 speakers. If I really had to criticize the SCM40s I’d say they needed a smidgen extra on the bottom bass and that’s exactly what the ATC amp does. Maybe your right, move up a couple of rungs on the NAIM ladder and throw an expensive external PSU at it and you start to get that bottom end bass but that’s moving right outside my budget range… maybe if the pools comes in (of course I might have to do the pools but you know what I mean).
So the ATC amp is a little lacking on the bells and whistles of the NAIM offering but I really don’t want all the gadgets. e.g. I don’t or want to use a mobile phone to alter the volume! It’s simply a damn good old fashioned design amp with proper discrete electronics inside - I doubt there’s a ic in it, though I have heard there’s an op-amp used for the headphone output so maybe one ic in there It’s very much like the Cambridge pre/power combo I had in the '80s. A darn big PSU and simple power stage with some butch mosfets I remember the circuit board was made using tape manually laid out on the negative and then a row of fets on the rear of the case. It was such a simple design I could have made it myself!
Just remembered it was the Cambridge Audio C75 and A75 - gosh they were good. They were moved from loft to loft over a 20 year period of house moves. When I finally got them out again all the switch work had rotted away e.g. the plastic knobs and power/selector switches 
I did half hearted search (RS/Farnell) for suitable repair parts but it’s was going to be some work. A shame but hey-ho.
I know the feeling when listening to something else after Naim setup. This effect happened also when I added 3rd party PSU to Naim DAC and especially when I switched from HCDR to 3rd party. The clear midbass emphasis disappears and you get more lower bass and better balanced sound. But of course the slight midbass emphasis is vital part of Naim sound signature and the forward/aggressive/fun sound Naim is known off. But I guess you have to sacrifice something to achieve it, at least on nDAC + SN2 level. I knew I could never go for the high end Naim setup and even the next step from nDAC + SN2 would’ve been so expensive that I decided to try something else. I don’t regret the decision.
I run the SCM40 actives from one of the outputs of the HiCap DR with great success. David from Flashback Sales has suitable custom cables this purpose. Source is an NDX/282 combo.
Brilliant setup.
@Patu: I have stumbled upon this thread and joined the forum specifically in order to be able to ask you: could you please elaborate some more about the Metrum Jade / ATC SCM40A pairing? I’m going to upgrade my whole system starting with the source and this pairing interests me very much.
I’ve heard the ATC’s but not the Jade (and I can’t audition it before buying). The speakers were positioned close to the (longer) wall in a small room (~10m2 maybe) with the listening position close to the center of the room (usually the worst location soundwise), some expensive and thick power chords and interconnects and ATC CDA 2 (mk1) cd player / preamplifier. The sound was detailed in the midrange especially, but the bass was overpowered by the proeminent midrange at low to medium sound levels making Led Zeppelin’s Immigrant Song lack some of the drive and weight of the bass line, which consequently was too difficult to follow for my taste. As if there was a peak around 1.5 - 2 kHz with recessed lower mids and midbass. The bass was also a bit lacking in texture. Highs were OK, while not particularly sparkling (which might also be a good thing, except for the low level listening). I did enjoy the detail in the mids, the low bass extension (very good!) and the sense of scale and I felt there is a very competent speaker there trying to get through. I suppose the CDA2 was at least partially to blame, but I’m still concerned about what I perceived as a subdued and somewhat amorphous, nasal bass lacking texture and impact and the overly proeminent upper midrange.
Combine these concerns with the typical shortcomings of the NOS Dacs like the Metrum Jade (rolled off treble and narrow soundstage, among others) and you will have a better idea about what kind of information would be most helpful for me regarding the ATC / Metrum pairing:
- was the treble extended or rolled off?
- was the soundstage wide, narrow or something in between?
- was the bass impact and texture clearly and effortlessly heard even at moderate sound pressure level, thus being well integrated in the musical gestalt? I understand it became overpowering because of the room modes, but what about the texture and detail?
- did you perceive the timbre of the acoustic instruments as correctly reproduced, with easily heard wood vs brass, nylon vs metal strings, Stradivarius vs. Amati, Steinway vs. Bosendorfer etc.? I’m an avid classical and jazz listener (especially piano!), so the range of timbres and tonal colors is especially important to me…
- Metrum dacs are said to be very relaxed sounding, was the sound energetic, snappy enough or was it a bit sleepy?
- musical or analitic? Warm, cold or neutral?
Sorry for the long post, anyone else’s contribution would be most welcome but I would be especially grateful for your feedback here! Thank you!
Wow, quite a few questions. I try to answer but I’m not sure if I can answer with enough detail.
First of all, very interesting comments about your audition. But 10m2 room where you auditioned SCM40A sounds awfully small for these speakers. My room is double that and they’re still on the large side for this space. As I described earlier, they were even too powerful with common dac/pre’s like Jade. Only with Linn ADSM and its space optimization I got perfect results out of them.
You don’t sound like you were that impressed with the 40’s? Maybe try some other options also, you might find something better for your preferences.
I mostly listened to the Jade with SCM19A’s, which I had in home demo for over three weeks before the 40’s arrived. I only listened the 40’s with it for two short evenings and it quickly became obvious that the bass performance was overpowering in my space with this combination. It wasn’t because Jade, it’s because of my room. The Jade definitely digs everything there is with the low end. The bass was already powerful and punchy with 19A’s, great performance there. So when I got the ADSM for audition, it was quickly obvious that it was the correct choice for me with the 40’s. But I did compare Jade with many other dac/pre’s and in this comparison I didn’t find the treble rolled off at all. It was extended and with some recording even close to being too much for what I’ve used to.
I struggle describing soundstage since that has never been priority to me. Being a Naim guy for the last ten years I’ve mostly been concerned about PRaT and musicality, the fun factor. To me its important that my setup sounds good out of the sweet spot also. That said, I didn’t feel like Jade was lacking in soundstage. PSAudio DS had slightly deeper and more three dimensional soundstage but pretty much the same width.
I’ve heard many times people saying that ATC, in general, doesn’t sound good with low volume levels. I noticed this with the passives but it’s different game with the actives. No matter the volume, they always stay in perfect control and explicit authority. Built in power amps are the key here I guess. With the actives I can also crank up the volume much higher and still feel ok with the sound levels. There’s less distortion with my current setup than before.
When I first heard passive 40’s in 2015, I immediately loved how they produce bass. Closed enclosure means that the bass is punchier and always hits with extreme control. Never loose or soft. To me this means great bass detail also. Double bass and difficult passages are always played with great clarity. What actives do much better than the passives is the reach and power, they really hit deep and you can feel it.
I almost never listen to classical or jazz, more electronic/rock/progressive guy myself. So I can’t comment about orchestral music.
I would definitely not call Metrum relaxing or too relaxing sounding. It was always somehow on top of the music and very much alive. Very detailed and crispy touch to the music, but not fatiguing. I would’ve hoped slightly better flow of music, which is where my current ADSM excels and is even better than Naim. I did get slight sensation of “separate instruments in the sound space”, if you know what I mean. They didn’t connect as well as I would’ve hoped. By no means did Jade sound sleepy/soft/muffled etc. None of these adjectives match it. If I wouldn’t have had bass problems with it, I’d probably still have the Jade. Maybe 40/60 musical/analytical and on the neutral side.
The casing felt slightly cheap for the price point of Jade. It’s well built though but little bit common and plain otherwise. The volume control is stupid since it’s sunk in to the front plate. So it’s difficult to use manually but the remote control worked well and was high quality.
What helped me most with Jade was this one discussion on SBAF. If this violates rules of Naim forum, then please delete this link:
There’s few good reviews which I found more helpful than commercial reviews. Onyx is identical to Jade but with no pre-amp function.
I hope this helps.
Chaps, I do think it a bit rich to post competitor product reviews on the Naim forum. Yes, we must feel free to discuss the competition, particularly where forumites have had some success, but posting competitor reviews might be pushing Naim’s goodwill a little too far.
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I see your point. Though after spending ~10 years and thousands of euros on Naim equipment I don’t feel too bad about posting little bit about my journey with other brands also. I still have great respect for Naim. After all, with active 40’s my first demo was 272 but it didn’t impress me enough.
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Great effort in answering my many questions and very helpful too, thank you very much!
The dealer admitted that the CDA2 mark 1’s sound does suffer from some glare after I mentioned my criticism, so I still have hopes for the ATC 40A. As for the bass, many things could have been to blame such as the cables and the room - the listening armchair in a null, I don’t know. I’m still very much open to other options, for example I liked very much a totally different sounding speaker, the Spendor SP2/3R2 driven by a Densen top of the line integrated and with an M2Tech dac. Great acoustic instruments timbre! And they say Densen is a kind of Scandinavian Naim… It’s just something like the Jade + ATC 40A has a simplicity (is this an actual word?) that I find very appealing.
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As you are on this forum, did it never cross your mind to demo any Naim gear? Maybe you have. If so, what did you think?
Just curious.
I did… very shortly. It was an integrated amplifier in an unfamiliar (and very strange sounding, IMO) room with never heard before source and speakers, so I couldn’t make an opinion. As a matter of fact, I have listened to a quite limited range of equipment. I live in a smaller town without audio dealers closer that 150 km and until recently I couldn’t consider such a significant purchase for financial reasons, so it didn’t make much sense to bother some people (read “dealers”) only to have the chance to salivate over what I can’t afford. Most of my high(-er) end exposure comes from my current Stax and my ex AKG K1000 headphones, but of course speakers are a different thing.
Understood. Must be frustrating having access to only a limited rage of HiFi. I guess we are lucky in the UK.
Good luck on your journey.
Quite so! Thanks a lot!
Hi Patu
Did you keep the Mytek?
thanks
Jim
Hi Jim,
No I didn’t. It was clearly inferior compared to other dac/pre’s I tried. Check out the previous messages, there’s plenty of info about my journey with 40A’s. Linn ADSM is my current source.
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