Surprised by your comment f_z, appreciating that I think you are in Japan.
In UK I can think of a number of dealers who are now out of town - some previous in city centres, others new businesses. In no particular order, HiFi Lounge, Signals, Audiobarn, Basically Sound and Cymbiosis to name a few, are now all located in more rural areas. It’s a win-win - client parking, the general consensus is that clients visiting are doing so with a purpose, likely having phoned ahead.
A city centre shop, has casual or passing trade, as well as serious clients, but the former may just have time to kill, during a shopping day. Parking a nightmare, if the shop hasn’t been incorporated into a traffic free zone. Ideal for shoppers, but for retailers selling heavy goods, less so.
No knowledge of Audio-T closure(s), but end of lease or break cause may be an added factor.
Dealers owning their own premises in city centre are more tied in, than those on a lease.
My pa was a property professional, who advised businesses to consider carefully before purchasing any premises, likely tying up sometime significant working capital; a lease with break clauses being potentially more appropriate, iro growth, expansion, location or environment.
Fair comment, likely because when Naim and Linn started, there were few distractions, for those of us taken with listening to music. Terrestrial tv didn’t start till 5pm and unless a Dr. Who fan, Saturday night wasn’t inspiring even in those days. Only so many hours spent playing sports, so nice way for mates to get together. IIRC a group of maybe twelve or fifteen of us, only two had hifi, rest used, if anything, all in one lp player or music centres. Visits to hifi shows and dealers were an event, often finding new music.
I recall working school holidays for my first amplifier - Armstrong 521 and Garrard soon replaced by Pioneer PL12D + tape deck; headphone listening, speakers were only added a few years later, when savings were accumulated. Saving up was the real thing then, I guess I wasn’t satisfied with listening to the old radiogram, when I was allowed to use it.
There is no doubt all-in-one is now the target for many, but I do wonder whether there will be an element of time shift, where younger generations adopt quality kit, not in great numbers, but at a later stage in life than say a few decades ago. There are many distractions, but travel and “experiences” are likely to be more of a priority!
Well those changes are still too small in my opinion. More evolutionary than revolutionary. I still keep in touch with my old boss from the shop in the UK and I visit the UK for dems about once a decade. But really the problem is global.
One thing I found after having kids was the number of places where adults need to spend time discussing things that have staffed play areas. Insurance brokers, real estate agents, architects and builders’ offices but not hifi shops. Nor is there much to occupy an accompanying adult not interested in hifi.
If it was me, I’d make it a major destination and roll the dice on the expense needed to increase traffic. Areas for kids, places to sit and read. Not just musical evenings for demonstrations but maybe music lessons or music history lessons. If in the country, maybe pair them with decent farm shops - places people with money go as a family. Taking a leaf out of Japanese Jazz cafes, I’d definitely combine hifi with decent beverages and cakes.
In other words, I’m thinking of the absolute craziest changes that could be made. Taking the old model and slinging it in the bin. Break it out of it’s solitary audiophile shell. It would really take an investor with money to waste to try out things and see which lunatic idea is the magic sauce.
AudioUnion in Japan dipped it’s toes in with their DiskUnion esoteric record shops that also sell hifi. In fact, before Naim pulled out in 2008, they were sold through the DiskUnion music stores rather than the AudioUnion hifi only stores. But that’s still too much of a baby step.
You can add Audio T Reading to the list , it is now far easier to get to, good service and they were very pleased to leave town centre Reading (all the charm of Slough, but with a crazy one way system )
I think now there are seven audio / AV dealers from Richer Sounds upwards and at least four are out of town
Very true and the out of town model is only preaching to the converted. That is fine for us enthusiasts but will inevitably lead to long term decline in the market as we all die off.
Creches, coffe shops, and vinyl racks would be great but even just being less offputting to the casual or passing trade would make a huge difference.
Why not have a couple of systems at different levels ready to play in the main shop area and then when someone walks in, offer to play their favourite music to show off how good it can be? Asking about their favourite music and being able to immediately access it (a lot of people still don’t know this is so easy) would be a great conversation starter. As it is, you walk in and are confronted by rows of dead boxes and actually hearing anything involves making an appointment for three weeks ahead.
Is it any wonder the hobby is dying?
In Dublin there are really only 3 proper Hifi outlets, 2 in fact and one is a bit out of town. The main dealer has a doorbell for entry so it’s a bit intimidating and you feel obliged to have a purpose for calling in, definitely no passing customers or browsing for those not well up on HiFi, nice people but an outdated model IMO. In another of the 3 you have to call in advance to make an appointment so worse than above, the third again has a doorbell and is slightly intimidating and is in a not very enticing industrial estate however they do operate a successful online experience and their website is well set up for this. Tower Records have a city centre shop with a HiFi area on the top floor, gear is a bit average but to be fair it’s reasonable quality stuff and accessibly priced so overall a sensible model. There is definitely an opening for an accessible store where you can browse and Joe Public can wander in and discover stuff across all price ranges that they were not even aware of in a relaxed setting. For traditional stores to survive they definitely need to change the model IMO.
I think that a few people are jumping the gun just a bit the fact is full separates has always been a relatively niche part of music listening. But the thing is physical shops disappearing is happening with everything I honestly think hifi is doing better than most. The majority of shops around her are either takeaways/charity shops/jewellers/opticians/coffee shops. If I wanted to buy a games console in a shop my only option without major travel is Argos. If I want a pc it’s the horror customer service of curry’s. The thing is I haven’t bought anything technology related in a store in ages (unless we are counting hifi as technology) I bought it all online. I’m guessing quite a few people buy their hifi systems online too.
Honestly my dealer is the best most involved customer service experience I’ve seen. If something went wrong with my tv tomorrow I’d have to call the warranty people wait at least a week for whoever they hired to check it, deal with a hideous loan tv for 2 weeks while they try to replicate my issue. If problem is replicable I then have to hope the repair is good, lasts and doesn’t create new issues but it is all usually quite a fight. If I had a hifi system issue I call my dealer immediately and I know they would be around as quickly as they could to try and fix it themselves.
There will be a good deal of naim and linn customers who bought online and aren’t part of forums like this. Hopefully the convenience of lifestyle products like the uniti series is helping hifi as a whole grow. My dealers are out of the main city and don’t seem to be suffering for it and I’m not concerned they are going to suddenly disappear.
I think part of the issue is also there is nothing new in audio/hi-fi. You have loads of amplifiers some are more expensive than others. Some sound different to others but they all do exactly the same thing. If you look at a row of 20 different amplifiers is there anything to salivate over?
As hollow posted above Dublin is quite poorly served and has been for years in reality but I’m often in Brussels visiting my grandchild (and of course my daughter and her husband!) And have looked up where some hi-fi shops are but not yet mustard up the interest to go and visit one and I’m Hi-fi enthusiast!
So I’m someone who has a hifi system and I have no inclination to go and visit a hi-fi shop then that intrinsically is probably a bigger issue than the dwindling number of people who have Hi-Fi systems.
Strange really as I used to have the impression of hi-fi shops as hallowed places and actually felt excited looking at the array of products there.
I suppose some of the change is probably just aging, (not too much awes me like it did my younger self).
A second factor might be that I now have quite a good system and would need to spend money that I really cannot afford (or probably more correctly cannot justify - to myself) to better it where as in the early days upgrades were relatively achievable.
And of course there is the knowledge that time and experience gives you in that I no longer believe a lot of the hype surrounding supposed night and day changes that new item X will bring with its patented GMYM technology. I have learned of course the huge limit that the room and my hearing have on the music I listen to. I realise that I have spent at times ridiculous amounts on cables where moving the speaker 2 mm would’ve given a better result.
If I’m honest I probably miss some of the excitement of having a 202 and having the option to add a NAPSC and then a HiCap but it’s hard to know how much of this I’m viewing through my rose tinted glasses.
So I suppose I am in the boat that thinks the direction of travel is only one way where people with hi-fi systems are visiting hi-fi shops less and less and there are less and less people with hi-fi systems. I don’t think any amount of greater coffee and wonderful croissants are going to change this.
yep, same mood here. I know memories are only taken the good part of our life, but i still remember the joy i had early 90’s with my first own system…the one i bought myself after lots of discussions, tests and passions…with my first salary…gosh was so amazed and proud of it.
And as you….if i would be honest now at 59, i didn’t got the same feeling since then, despite my long quest for the perfect sound. Even with my last very (for me) costly system i was still feeling missing something…perfect sound yes…but ….hence my choice to come back to a more reasonable system…and do you know what…this is giving me a big smile on my face again.
Think my post may not have been clear - the passing trade is still imho, those who know what a hifi shop is. It is likely the case, the out of town are serving the higher end customers. There are some sensible suggestions as to how to entice new customers - in todays “buzzy” world - serious music listening may be on the wain. IIUC the live music - the complete range - with the exception of some special acts - struggles to attract the younger audiences.
Decline of physical book reading, music, theatre and the performing arts plus intelligent (non-social media) news reading has all declined.
Is it the case that music has declined in isolation.
Who would have predicted or even placed money on vinyl revival?
I’m also from Dublin and I’d agree with the other two posters above about the doorbells…
For years after I first got into hifi (well, my Yamaha AX396 and Wharfedale Valdus 100s would be mid-fi to many here! I lusted after the Rogers db101’s that adorned the walls of the clothes shop I worked in!) I was almost afraid to visit the main hifi dealer to even browse or discuss upgrades precisely because of the doorbell. I didn’t think I was “high end” enough to be taken seriously in there.
When I did actually venture in many years later I found them surprisingly approachable. I didn’t even know that dealers did pre owned stock. That visit led to my second hand UQ2 after a couple of demos against different equipment.
I do think Tower Records are on the right track. The lads are friendly and there is a good selection from Bluetooth speakers up to separates.
The attitude to and quality of music listened to by the younger generation is telling as well.
I have friends who play in bands and the most often quote is "young people don’t go and see live music anymore. I would concur at the sort of gigs I go to where as a 60 year old, I often feel young. There are obvious exceptions to this Taylor Swift seems to attract an audeience and here music is available on vinyl. Priorities have changed. My generation would have bought a rudimental hi-fi system before a car and would also be glued to the radio for the charts every week. Now if they are listening to music it is steaming playlists via phone. Also a lot of the heavily compressed and over produced stuff doesn’t benefit from listening through quality kit.
A lot of young people today like a sound with a overblown bass and plenty of power - quite a bit of expensive quality audio kit is not going to tick their boxes. For one, it will lack the type of bass they are looking for and for two it will lack any sort of sound pressure levels that a crude PA system is capable of.
Not my experience at all both from attending gigs myself and from my children (mid 20s).
I think you’re way off the mark with that comment but then again it’s only my perception against yours but it did seem there were a few young people at Glastonbury.
Agree strongly with SJB. My daughter, late 20s, likewise v keen on gigs. Even went to The Proms the other night, and Taylor Swift tomorrow. In ainm an athar…SJB
AJB
Ref young people attending gigs, I’ve taken my daughter to Harry Styles a couple of times and Wembley was packed full of young teenagers, plus a small portion of parents.
Some also go places where older people just wont be seen, so thousands of 16-17 year olds headed down to Boardmasters in Cornwall the other week, with capacity for about 60,000. It’s uncool for 18+ year olds to attend, so I’m told, which just about rules me out. Fortunately, my daughter didn’t want to go. Reading Festival is also very popular with younger teenagers now.
I also remember purchasing my first separates system in the 90s having inherited a small amount of money, having upgraded from a midi Aiwa system. Back then, everybody had to have a tape deck, I owned a twin cassette Denon deck, a Pioneer CD multi- disc player, a Technics pre-power which was very good and replaced an Arcam Delta Amp which kept blowing a fuse, QED cables and TDL RTL2 floor standing speakers. I ended up getting another Technics amp to bi amp and a Marantz single CD player, from there on constant upgrades until marriage and children halted affairs!
I think the decline in hifi appreciation has been mirrored in the world of fine wine. I buy my posh wine from a small merchant in Wellington NZ. We got to talking and he said that upwardly mobile professionals in their 30s and 40s are not buying much bordeaux or burgundy or other expensive wines, compared to a similar demographic in the 1990s. The newer generation is more appreciative of craft beers and cocktails. In the USA there are oceans of unsold fine wine due a lack of interest from the kids born in the 1980s and 1990s.
My kids were exposed to my good naim system in the 1990s but do not aspire to any more than their iphone and some wireless heaphones. There is so much choice now in music and also at such low cost in the headphone world, that they would not countenance a proper music system. Plus they have less space to plonk a hifi system in, what with property prices.
