Audio T Oxford closing

You can buy an almost bomb and water proof site Makita radio, that you can take anywhere, (with bluetooth) that will engage to most non-audiophiles, especially after a few glasses of wine, just as much, in a domestic setting, over an obscenely & over-priced lump of black stacks that’s not running 100%, weighing a huge amount of weight and taking up loads of space. That is the reality for the youngsters.

The one main problem with HiFi is its price. Nothing wrong with things being expensive but a lot of it just isn’t worth the money. Better off (from a thrills point of view) buying a Makita radio and spending the rest on a decent motorcycle…

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Not high-end I suppose but nipped into Oxford’s HMV today - they really shouldn’t make us old fogeys climb stairs to find the ‘records’ but they had several lower priced Project turntables as well as a few likely decent Technics offerings and take them or leave them Klipsch speakers. Nice to see some better quality kit beyond cheap £60 USB connected ‘record players’.

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Interesting. I’d never thought about this. I wonder how recent it is. About 15+ years ago, when Mrs. FZ and I were in our late 20s, we certainly enjoyed “cocktail hour” at home with a fine assortment of spirits, but we would also purchase wine in small wooden crates, with 30 bottles in each, direct from a merchant in Italy. Of course this was all before my liver packed up (unrelated). I think craft beers were definitely a thing back then but I’ve seen hitherto unknown regions for wine blossoming since then with a sort of foodie culture eager on pegging something for it’s quality rather than “value”. Getting really enthusiastic about local wineries’ offerings for their fine dining instead of pairing with more established “fine wine” selections.

If anything, I’d say they got more discerning but less snobby - which is a pretty fair assessment of foodie culture in general.

I don’t really see a lot of parallels to hifi purchasing habits of the next generation. It has seemed incredibly fringe since as far back as I can remember. I still think the buying habits that have changed are not what people buy for hifi but how they buy it. I’m sure hifi shops have seen a massive fall in foot traffic. I don’t think that translates to a smaller market for mid to high end hifi necessarily.

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You make some very good points. I agree that hi-fi has always been somewhat niche. I remember being transfixed listening to a Chinese friends Linn/naim/Kef system in 1981, with no other person in our acquaintance being in the least bit interested. I also suspect those folk buying mid range turntable/amp/speakers in the 1980s would not have bought them if there was a muso-type offering back then.
I was also thinking that petit bourgois necessities must change with fashion, and the hifi aspirations of someone born circa 1960 may be different from someone born in say 2000. I know in the 1820s it was the thing to collect fossils and in the mid 20th century to collect stamps. Things change.

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I do not know about the shop in question, as I live in Italy. But this discussion has turned into something more broadly interesting. Until about 2000, we had in our small city (100,000) two good HiFI shops. We lost them both in the space of ten years. After a gap of fourteen years a new one has just opened. I had to make an hours trip down the Autostrada , to demo and buy my Naim XS3. We do have a good record shop that specialises in Classical and Jazz. ( I am in the Opera loving area of Italy).

I get the impression that most of us posting here are from the baby boom generation. As teenagers music and your musical taste played a big part of our adolescence. Let’s face it there was not much to do back then and we listened to music with friends and we had hobbies to pass the time. If we wanted to learn about something, we bought a book.

My sons generation are not interested in music. The video has game killed most hobbies and has replaced music as an adolescent congregator. Who build model railways today?
My son is not interested in buying music, hardly ever reads a book. His music lives on a USB key that he plays in the car. He learns about stuff from the internet. He has got a good degree and a good job.

Internet has changed everything, for good or worse. I have a small Engineering studio. Through recommendation, by other clients, I have never met about 50% of my clients. My two biggest clients reside in another Region and I meet them rarely. My studio would not survive on local clients. This is relevant to HiFi too.

I know the guy who runs the record shop, I have shopped there for about 30 years. Once they could rely on local trade. Now internet sales keep them afloat. They mostly stopped dealing with pop and rock long ago, as the newer generations download of stream, there is some return to buying music on a physical format thanks to vinyl. But the numbers I was given for let’s say a Taylor Swift LP are a small fraction of the sales pre Spotify.

My other big passion in life is photography. The masses have been marketed into believing that the cell phone is the only camera you need, just as Apple have convinced a younger generation that your iPhone and a cheap pair of earphones is how music is listened too. Note the masses of cheap or not so cheap in ChiFi in ear headphones that are one of the growth sectors of audio. We have been convinced that “good enough” is all we need. Check out the Head Fi site. There are quite a few younger people there.

The HiFi shops that survive, survive in a much smaller market, and to survive, must have an online presence. I buy things I am certain of liking or non critical items from a shop in Milan, they discount quite heavily. They are in a back street in the suburbs of Milan. Their model is mostly a new one. The stuff I buy from them does not come from the shop. It comes from the wholesaler direct ( I see the DHL tracking). My PMC speakers came from Pisa. My Lehman Audio headphone amp I bought from a shop in Naples, came from a warehouse near Milan. It is difficult find that my local HiFi shop stocks the brands I want. The do not stock Naim. They order Rega. It is pretty much impossible to demo gear and so I mostly build a picture of kit I want by reading reviews and forum comments. It works for me at my level.

The internet has changed everything.

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But in my experience of young and old, those that want a true camera for the pursuit of photography buy a camera… used or new and borrow or buy lenses depending on financial situation… the same for audio replay. For those where hifi or photography is part of their lives, then the delight of using specific tools is obvious.
It’s the same for hifi and the pursuit of quality replay and being into music…
For those who are not bothered, a smartphone takes great snaps (though often not that life like and heavily machine processed), is convenient and you can carry in a pocket or small hand bag… the same for music and smart speakers or ear bud playback… they can sound quite good.
I think it’s been like this for a long time… at the low end there is more choice and you don’t need to use dedicated low end products… whether it be basic cameras or hifi… and these low end products have got more and more capable and are safely purchased online.
True photography and true hifi is a minority pursuit… I suspect it always has been… most people may well have other priorities… and these days unfortunately we possibly have too many shops to be sustainable.

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Okay back in the 70/80s did Naim have products in John Lewis or Currys?

They didn’t have hifi in Curry’s then and they don’t now either.

The Muso stuff never existed before. It’s accessible. Luxury but affordable. It’s not hifi but it is good in it’s category.

Naim changed, not the world. Little music centres did exist in Currys in the 80s. The only difference is Naim wasn’t having a piece of that pie.

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Well okay, we can debate what is or isn’t hifi for as long as we want, but my point is that Naim’s presence at least in UK is greater than at anytime before. The Naît 1 of 1985 is now the Atom, kind of!

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Out of interest what do you base this on? Is it because the number of product types in the UK is larger than before?

Number of dealers, Richer Sounds and JL included, sure its budget end of the market but equally there’s some very high end outlets selling Statement.

Ok thanks, I thought the number of retailers was declining… so you believe more of the remaining/surviving retailers are carrying Naim lines than before?

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I should imagine that in 1975 there were more traditional high street 2 channel dealers but there wasn’t Richer Sounds, or Naim in JL, but also the shift and emergence of dealers out of town e.g Cymbiosis, Audiobarn, Signals, Hifi Lounge, Cultured Audio. But I don’t know what the sales figure say. I should imagine in raw numbers they are bigger but a high % will be Muso and Uniti.

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I think the reason that many people are buying all in one boxes or just using their phones and streaming is that the sound quality of these devices is actually quite good - certainly enough to allow you to enjoy music. Streaming also obviates the need to buy and play back physical media as well as sounding at least decent.
Back in the heyday of separates, Dansette type record decks, transistor radios etc. were truly awful and incapable of party levels, so if you wanted acceptable music reproduction you had to buy separates if you liked music or liked to party. That led some of us on to an upgrade path we are still following but that path is not so necessary these days. For example I use my Muso QB1 for outdoor parties and it is plenty good enough and loud enough for such an uncritcal listening situation.

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And now the long time bastion of central London HiFi, Grahams is moving out to New Barnet as well…

Argh, didn’t know that.

There seems to be a bit of snobbery on display here. It’s perhaps worth considering things from the perspective of the simple enjoyment of recorded music, which surely is what it’s all about.

Might it be possible that the person listening through earbuds on their phone, or sitting in the kitchen with a Qb, while discovering new music on Spotify or whatever, is actually getting far more musical satisfaction than the person with the £100,000 stereo who spends all their time comparing ethernet cables in order to wring the last iota of detail from an album they have heard thousands of times already?

One can get fantastic quality from very modest setups these days, something that simply wasn’t possible when many forum members first started out on their quest for musical enjoyment.

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I think it’s as much rose tinted glasses Nigel and denial of change, and as much as I am conservative and therefore tend towards holding on to things there’s no doubt that by whatever medium people can enjoy more music for less (in real terms) these days. A prominent photographer a little while ago was describing why he loved smartphones when he said they democratise photography.

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I don’t know the others - but Signals is definitely in town now (a suburb of Felixtowe). It moved from ‘out of town’ to in town. I think the key thing is that they have their own parking and the space now – they have adapted a small redundant church.

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Yes parking is the key.

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