Out of curiosity do you also deny the possibility of a change in the sound of an amplifier running in over a period of time?
I think they have made it clear ALL burn in is banned.
Hahah banned!
All you ever hear from Technical people is this is impossible that’s impossible
you are so boring and tedious.
The Penny may not have dropped yet but This is a Subjective Hobby!
IT IS TIME TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD
To all those Technical people anywhere your opinions are Archaic and a Irrelevancy
UNLESS you can outline what and how you did your listening tests
on ANY Subjective subject.
WE ARE WAITING !
Also we know very well that science has, and does, get things wrong. There is also a world of stuff waiting to be discovered. sometimes people speak as if we know everything but we simply do not. I am a proponent of science and critical thinking but I am very aware that part of that is to question such strong statements when there is an absence of evidence on either side.
Some electronic components can and some do change in use, primarily through heating effects, which may be reversible (sounding different cold and warmed up) or permanent. The main permanent changes other than gradual deterioration are likely to happen during a soak test (done by decent manufacturers) where the amp is connected to a dummy load and run at full power, typically for 48 hours. Some can continue to change throughout their lives even when not in use, though the rate of change may vary with temperature, but the rate of change is very slow and only likely to be measurable ir audible over very long timescales.
Otherwise psychological or physiological hearing variability effects are no different between amps and cables - and big swings in perceived sound in particular are unlikely through physical effects. As with any other apparent observed phenomenon, ruling out of bias or observational error is important if determining whether the cause is physical or otherwise, which with “burn in” of amps is as rare as with cables.
Look don’t beat around the bush. Do you think the sound of an amplifier will change from the first time it is switched on after being built, to after a few months of use. At the same operating temperature. My answer would be a firm yes. Please don’t provide an answer that I need an additional degree to understand.
Easy tiger. He said yes, in the first sentence.
This topic is about cable burn in. Not amplifier burn in.
Amplifier components change due to heat and I’d guess other environmental factors such as humidity. Probably also due to the components heating up and down too. Some wear out over time. So certainly there can be audible differences.
That’s quite a rant! Out of curiosity, do you consider yourself immune to psychological or physiological effects that could affect the sound as you hear or perceive it?
It’s very convenient that cable burn-in results in an improvement rather than a degradation.
Let’s keep things civil everybody.
Not always. I used some standard power cable from diy store and it sounded great at first. After a few months the bass seemed to become overblown and the detail muddied. Couldn’t stand it after that. I thought I had struck gold at first. I guess cables are developed and tested and the condition in which they are supposed to work in is post run in. Same as amps, they a are designed to sound right with there components run in, not new.
I’m not sure it’s so convenient, but rather more fortunate.
Richard, you must have heard a few freshly built amps vs well played ones. Any thoughts?
If an amp can run in why can’t a cable? It is all signal path.
I don’t know what you didn’t understand about my response, and it certainly wasn’t beating around any bush. I said that electronic components can change, which can include changing in electrical performance: yes that means the sound of an amplifier can change. I pointed out that some changes may be short term, happening through being being powered up for the first time, much of which will happen during soak testing if done thoroughly by a manufacturer, or may be long term, typically over the life of the amplifier. And some are reversible, so the amp may be different whan warmed up compared to cold.
A question for you and others adamant cables burn-in: If change happens to any degree that is significant, why is it that seems always to be a positive change? If someone likes the sound when first installed, change should bring up a good proportion of people who find the change negative, yet complaints of deterioration due to burn-in seem extremely rare (I don’t actually recall reading of any).
An amp having active components is very different from a passive conductor. Maybe both run in, but the mechanisms would likely be very different.
Tachyons are behind all my cable burn in experiences.
As I said before, a component has gone through enough testing that its “run in” state is the finished product. Not many try cables that weren’t designed as speaker cables as I have.
I think that a great many have used cables that were not designed as speaker cables. Indeed, at one point all cables used as speaker cables were not designed as such.
Some years ago the common recommendation was to use Radio Spares 76-strand (IIRC) cable. Certainly I have used many cables that were not designed as speaker cable, as well as several that were. The only thing that seemed to affect the sound was the thickness of the cable - and with Naim amplifiers of course you have to avoid some speaker cable designs.