I am genuinely seeking experiences from people who upgraded from the 552/500DR (or 300DR) to something else such as a high quality integrated amp. Is the upgrade meaningful to you in terms of delivering a comparable or better performance.
I am at a stage where I question my own credibility when reviewing audio equipment. Amps which previously didn’t sound too good are now sounding rather good with some optimisation although I believe there is still room for improvement. The amps are Naim 282/250DR/HCDR and Luxman L-590AXII and I have been switching back and forth between these amps for several months while waiting for my Gryphon Diablo 300 to be back.
Both the Naim and Luxman sound subtly different, no dramatic differences but noticeable nevertheless. Most importantly there isn’t a bad sounding amp and both sound great. I enjoy listening to these amps when they are optimised right. Many things can affect the performance of a component as we all know, and for this reason we all do not share the same experience with a single component as every system is different.
Sorry for the diversion, back to the question. The 552/500DR may be reference level good but is it that good or are there single boxes which produce comparable or better performance. I am at a point where I am completely done with the boxes but am just curious. It may be a matter of managing expectations and I am committed to stay put with the current system(s) until the end. Nevertheless, things may be different if there’s a windfall in the future although I will need to decide if I’m going to spend it on the hifi. However, I will also need to realise that perfection does not exist and there may be no end to the journey although I’ve made the ‘final’ change.
That in itself is weird. Luxman and Naim amps have very different presentations. Yes, the engineering has some similarities such as star earthing, regulated power amp sections, large linear power supplies etc,. But really, they sound totally different.
For the benefit of people who have actually done the 500 series to integrated change though, you might want provide some additional context about why your own preference isn’t good enough. I mean, some people went from multi-box to an N50 even. I’m not sure a N50 is really at that level but I believe people might subjectively prefer it that that personal preference is all that counts at the end of the day, not the “credibility” of your opinion. After all, the only one spending your money is you [and the government ].
When I was younger, I would describe small differences as a big difference. Nowadays I would regard any ‘big’ difference as just noticeable difference. If I couldn’t hear any meaningful difference then it’s a either a small difference or no difference. I guess it’s just a way I choose to describe things these days. Perhaps it’s the room or something else, I don’t know.
When I was comparing the Luxman and Naim about five weeks ago, the difference was significant(well, noticeable ) with the Naim pulling ahead. The Luxman had an overall soft presentation with poor clarity and dynamics. When I compared the amps recently last week, the Luxman sounds different, noticeably better and much closer to the Naim’s presentation with improved bass and dynamics. The sound quality wasn’t as soft or wooly as before. It was then I realise that the Luxman DA-06 DAC was used with the Luxman amp earlier. When the Luxman was used with the Chord QBD76 DAC, things sound noticeably (or significantly) better. Different speaker cables and interconnects used with Naim and Luxman too. I need more time to do the comparisons.
FWIW I have owned the Luxman and Naim for a long time, 8 or 9 years if not longer and it’s amazing that I am still discovering the potential of these amps. I just received a Shunyata Sigma-X NR mains power cable but do not have the time to listen yet, and I have just placed an order for a Furutech e-TP609NCF-N1 and will likely receive it sometime next month. These days I’m spending more on cables and accessories than anything else. The Shunyata mains cable can buy me a Nait 50, and I have several more costly power cables that cost almost the same as the Shunyata.
N50 is not on the radar as it doesn’t have a remote. I’m actually happy with all my current amps, four in total and have no intention to change anything. It is just my curiosity on how good are the 552/500DR and some of the top integrateds which have replaced this Naim.
First,have listened to many different integrated like Vitus etc., but none of the have the sense of musicality and engagement as the 552/500.
552/500 are also in a different league compared to the NN50 and the other Nait’s.
If you want to upgrade your own amps,I would first go for a Supercap for the Nac 282.
I would also remove the Subwoofer from the system,as it messes up the timing, you will hear bigger differences between Naim and the other amps without a Subwoofer.
I think many update the source along with everything else meaning what you had at first might not be so bad that you initially thought. I remember pulling out my 500/552 (non DR) and inserted N50 with the same great source, cables, switches and all and thought… really? One can have a thought about the length of paths signal has to travel within a 552/500 system compared to a simple N50. If you believe in simplicity then.. well. I’m sure there are many super integrated amps that beat a 552/500 system. But what is better is individual. Some just need the fiddling and multiple boxes and believe more is always more.
Good to know. I have also suspected the 552/500DR is in a different league when compared to N50. I read that the Vitus is the closest sounding to Naim, not sure about that. Also, not sure if anyone has compared the 552/500DR to Gryphon’s top integrated the Diablo 333. I currently have the Diablo 300 but it’s still away for repair.
I am fully aware another Hicap DR or Supercap DR will likely improve the NAC 282 but I’m not sure if I want to keep adding money to the Naim as it’s not my main amps at the moment and for the fact that there is a slight possibility (in the future) that they will be replaced by the NAC552. It will entirely depend on the circumstances ie. a good condition late 552 at a good price, and good trade-in for my current Naim amps. Having said that I still think it is unlikely I’ll end up with the 552.
The REL S-510 subwoofer has not been connected to the system for more than two years due to limited placement options in the room.
I think subs in stereo can be fine provided they are in a pair and professionally dialled in. It’s not easy to do, and positioning with just one is extra complex to the degree I won’t even try.
I agree that making comparisons are almost certainly best done without it, but don’t write them off entirely. They can be exceptionally difficult to integrate but having heard them properly set up, the effect on the size of the soundstage, especially in classical scores is quite amazing. I know many dislike them, but the truth is simply that there is no cheap or easy way to integrate them and trying to cheat that reality yields pretty horrid results.
This can be a very hard lesson to learn. If you are chasing perfection in life in general, not just hi-fi, then you will be on a fool’s errand.
I’ve never reached the heights of 552/500, but we did have a 252/Supercap/olive 250. That was more than 17 years ago. We now have a Moon 340ix integrated and we’re completely happy with it’s performance. It’s a lovely amp and we don’t feel we’re missing out at all. So yes I would say it’s entirely possible to go from a mega expensive multi box amp to an integrated, even at much lower cost, and still find complete satisfaction.
Once you do start to manage your expectations and give up the pointless and misguided quest for perfect sound things become very much easier, less expensive and far more enjoyable.
When you consider that a full 500 system plus reasonable speakers costs more than the entire net salary for someone in the top 1% income bracket then the prices have lost the plot.
I moved from a 282/250dr with a DR HiCap to a Luxman 509x. I don’t regret the move and whilst I enjoyed the Naim gear whilst I had it (which was over 20 yrs with various upgrades), I was getting fed up with the niggles from engineering flaws like humming, unbalanced volume pot etc. The Luxman has a purity of sound, sophistication and convincing tonality that the Naim couldn’t reach, though it’s not as punchy in the mid bass. But as a simple, incredibly well engineered piece of equipment I feel it’s a step above Naim. I don’t miss all the boxes and personally prefer the sound signature, though everyone has their own preferences so I’m not claiming it’s ‘better’. If I was ever to go back to Naim I’d get a Supernait and vinyl source - the Supernait’s great value and I could imagine a good vinyl source would make the slightly rough edges of the amp enjoyable.
In todays High End, where cables can cost £x0000’s, tonearms alone several tens of 1000’s and speakers … let’s not go there, £60 grand is not unusual.
Value? Could not comment as I am not their target demographic but I can probably assume that for most non Audiophiles at least it would be outlandish but a few select ageing gear lovers would’nt even blink spending this much.
We live in different worlds clearly. I know absolutely no one that wouldn’t blink at $70k.
If you look at salary browth over ten years versus Naim prices, a 500 system was previously with reach of the top 5-10%. And now it’s out of reach for even the top 1% at new gear prices.
If you want to dip your toe where most can’t. A nac 52 nap 500 combo is a very good start at working mans wage. I actually prefer it over its replacements. The foot tapping rawness of the 52 and the nap 135 ish of the 500 with some more of everything m. All others are just hifi imo.
].
) with the Naim pulling ahead. The Luxman had an overall soft presentation with poor clarity and dynamics. When I compared the amps recently last week, the Luxman sounds different, noticeably better and much closer to the Naim’s presentation with improved bass and dynamics. The sound quality wasn’t as soft or wooly as before. It was then I realise that the Luxman DA-06 DAC was used with the Luxman amp earlier. When the Luxman was used with the Chord QBD76 DAC, things sound noticeably (or significantly) better. Different speaker cables and interconnects used with Naim and Luxman too. I need more time to do the comparisons.
