Calling Owners Who Have Upgraded From 552/500DR to Integrated Amps

Because if they don’t they will eventually go out of business. Steve Jobs famously once stated that “If you don’t cannibalize yourself, someone else will”. Separates and excess boxes are not the future.

Yet when we look at the state of the art of digital and analog design, the one undeniable truth remains: power supplies dictate performance. You cannot escape the physics of EMI and inductive coupling. Audio signals are incredibly sensitive, and placing a massive, radiating toroidal transformer next to a delicate DAC stage or analog output introduces a noise floor that you just can’t filter out later. Other top-tier manufacturers are doing similar things, like Nagra - the HD DAC X uses two completely stand-alone external power supplies. The other route is what Andreas Koch did with the MPD8, putting it in one box, but making that box massive and heavily segregated, with three regulated analog power supplies, each fed by its own independent transformer.

So while we might want fewer boxes for lifestyle reasons, you either need separate enclosures or one physically massive chassis to manage the power requirements without degrading the signal. We can’t cheat physics just yet. Maybe one day.

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Are you certain that external power supplies are required for the DAC stage or the analog output? For instance, the Linn network streamers have an one-box design, and they are not bad streamers. In fact, it is challenging to surpass the sound quality of the Linn next-generation Klimax DSM streamer with the Organik DAC and the Utopik power supply, all in one box.

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I have heard the Organik/Utopik combo. It’s a tradeoff. A switch-mode power supply is incredibly efficient, generates very little heat, and is physically small enough to share a chassis with other delicate components. Where the tradeoff lies is that an SMPS inherently creates A LOT of high-frequency switching noise. To put it all in one box, Linn has had to invest enormous R&D into complex active filtering, exotic switching algorithms, and heavy compartmentalization just to suppress the noise introduced by choosing an SMPS in the first place. Other high-end manufacturers invest heavy R&D into SMPS designs as well (take a look at Soulution), but the fact of the matter is, you are still embedding a noise-generating component right next to the audio signal and then trying to eliminate as much of that noise as you can downstream.

Brands producing separates either choose a naturally quiet analog power supply (e.g. a linear supply with a massive toroidal transformer) whose sheer physics dictate it must live in its own heavy box, or can even take an advanced SMPS and simply put it in a separate box. By moving the SMPS to its own chassis, physical distance does the heavy lifting and you don’t have to engineer insanely complex internal noise suppression.

I am just not fully convinced by the sound of these overly complex, single-box solutions. The architectures that sound truly incredible to my ears rely on the simplest, most undeniable noise suppression available: physical isolation. And that inherently requires multiple boxes I think.

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While I acknowledge that it is not possible to entirely circumvent the principles of physics or that physical separation is an effective method for mitigating noise and power supply issues, I would disagree with the assertion that “single box = compromised.”

Some of the most effective one-box designs, such as Linn’s Organik and Utopik, are not merely lifestyle shortcuts. Instead, they address the same EMI and grounding challenges through meticulous compartmentalization, sophisticated power supply control, and thoughtful layout rather than relying on additional enclosures. In my opinion, the number of boxes is less significant than the designer’s ability to effectively manage noise, grounding, and power within the chosen architecture.

I’ve heard excellent and mediocre results from both designs.

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I think it used to in the past, but not any more. Same with pre/power amps vs integrated. Pre/power was always automatically better many years ago but now there are lots of high performance integrated amps that out perform many pre/powers. But lots of people still cling to the notion that multiple boxes must be best just because everything’s kept separate.

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Really, loads do it fine, take dCS for instance they have power supplies in the same dac box and the noise floor measurements are far lower than the nd555.
Plus you don’t need large toroidal transformers in the first place.

You can also easily loss any gain you might have got with say an unshielded cable between the power supply and box. Its all about design or not as the case may be.

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I bought a Killwanger Statement integrated, 2X 1200W, for my second house in California. No toroïdal transformer, no SMPS. It’s powered by the sun.

Takes no place in the living room, as it doesn’t match our original Picasso paintings.

It stays on the roof.

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Yes they are, their just not telling you.

I think the heat is getting to you @frenchrooster .

PS: Have you tried pasta as a cable lifter yet (link to explanation here)?

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Yes, 38 C today. I have Delirium Hottens.

Good idea for pasta lifters. 2 little wood blocks and a bridge with 2 lasagnes, 10 cm each. Every 20 cm you repeat the bridge. Then you put your speakers câbles on it.

The gluten free is better on supressing RFI and EMI.

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I’ve got 7 Naim boxes on brains & prawn (brawn!) racks, and they sound absolutely amazing right now into DBLs listening to this album that I know so well, that I’m hearing better than ever before.

I don’t want more or less boxes, because this is the exact right number for me.

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I have a 552/500/ND500 set up and love it. I have moved house a few times in last 3-4 years and must say I got tired of keeping packing it up and rebuilding it so I did have a cheeky listen to some integrateds as I thought it would make my life easier. I didnt really go deep into listening (the obv candidates like Luxman) but I didnt get drawn into them at all. One I would like to listen to is the T&A stuff, I really like the look of it but not heard it. At end of day I am hopefully settled in current house and so the need to move it all has gone away so I am going to stay with the 500 series as the sound it produces is something else.

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@biddler66 I also think a single box is a mixed blessing. I tried a Vitus R101 mk 2 with streamer module. It was very nice indeed, but I decided it was not for me. It was also 40kg so moving it around was a challenge and I needed to get help from a neighbour to get up some steps and back into the car. With naim the weight is of course split across a number of boxes..

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I am quite pleased that 500DR is 25KG “only”. It can be carried carefully alone. Gryphon or other muscular amps are all heavier and definitely require a 2-person job. Sometimes you just can’t find additional people to help out when doing spring cleaning.

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That’s another advantage of having real mono amps like Nap 135’s and Nap 350’s,one transformer per channel has many advantages.

The bridged Nap 500 is like 4xNap 135’s in one box ,but only one transformer…

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I hope the next 500 amplifier will be a true mono and can be satisfactorily matched with the S1 Pre-Amp easily. I can do Bi-Amp with my Focal and if a XLR 500 next-gen amplifier come out coupled with S1 (if I lucky enough to own one) will be super dreamy for me :smiling_face_with_horns:

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Try one of these…

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When I had them side-by-side I preferred a pair of NAP135s over a non-DR NAP300, which seemed a bit tame and overly smooth.
Maybe this was due to it sharing a transformer between channels, unlike the 135s.

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I felt the same.