Aplologies for the typo’s - in a rush!!
I’d add to the mix of comments thus far that the playback equipment and the relative merits of one versus the other are only part of the end result.
The benefit of moving away from a physical medium like a CD to a file based medium (the data on your existing CD library copied on to a storage device like a Hard Drive or Network Attached Storage device) is convenience firstly in that you have almost instant access to your entire CD library all stored in one place. It takes up relatively little space and can be located somewhere discreet and out of the way as needed. The other benefit is the use of metadata which is the information that includes things like Artist, Album Name, Genre, Year of recording, conductor, orchestra or whatever you may want/need to reference against.
How you copy/rip your CD library and then access it can be done in a number of ways and each solution will have it’s own mechanism for exposing the metadata associated with the actual audio data to make the search and discovery experience more engaging and feature rich. A good example of a library manager tool here is Roon which I use myself as do many on this forum. It’s not a mandatory requirement but it’s one of a number of tools that helps to consolidate your own local CD library with those made available by streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal. It gives a personalised and fine-tuned discovery process that allows you to find things you like easily and to find new material you may not have been aware of previously, it’s a music assistant of sorts.
If you allow yourself you can very quickly and easily spend a lot of time and money on expensive equipment to rip/store/manage and connect your streaming equipment to your listening experience but in essence that’s not entirely necessary, not initially at least.
If you have a computer and a CD/DVD drive you can create a ripped CD library relatively easily using software like dBPowerAmp or XLD and store the CD data on either a USB or Network Attached hard drive.
If you are using a product like an NDX2 you would use a Naim application on your phone or tablet (Apple/Android) to connect to and control the search and playback functions.
A wired connection between everything including your playback equipment and the Internet connection is preferable mainly as it will give you less to worry about and give a consistent experience. You can do that with standard cables readily available in retail for consumer use.
A basic setup could be as follows as an example:
RJ-45 Ethernet Wired (At least a CAT 5e type cable, a CAT 6 type cable won’t hurt but either will work)
Internet Router -> NAS (Synology or Qnap being good examples)
Internet Router -> Naim ND streamer
Wi-Fi connected
Internet Router -> Phone/Tablet (app to search and control playback)
CD ripping
Windows or Mac Computer
XLD or dBPowerAmp application to handle the ripping and storage
That would be enough to get your CD’s in to a streamable library on a NAS and control their playback. There are numerous steps beyond that to take things further and refine the experience, however, to keep it simple and to allow you to make an informed judgement of the experience and to compare it against your CD playback that will be enough to get you going and not cost a lot to get you there.
A more fundamental decision lies in the actual streamer/digital transport hardware you may want to focus on. Given you’ve already got an XPS DR then the NDX2 is an obvious choice as those two piece of equipment are compatible and the NDX2 benefits greatly from a listening quality perspective from the addition of an XPS DR, effectively disabling the internal PSU in the NDX2 when connected to an XPS DR.
In terms of system complexity and ease of use this is a solid choice. Whilst there are multiple alternatives this gives you all you may need in one Black Box and also has both Digital Inputs and Outputs to support alternative setup scenarios.
I’d also add that the comments about the listening experience of your existing CD player are valid in so much that the NDX2 + XPS DR will give a different listening experience. Not necessarily a clear cut better/worse result either, just different but safe in the knowledge that the NDX2 is designed and performs as a Naim product should and will give you a lot of enjoyment and a huge amount of flexibility never possible with a CD player alone.
In the world of streaming it’s fair to say that there’s no universal one size fits all end game. There are users on the Naim community that run the whole gamut of system complexity and price points when it comes to streaming and many will help guide you as you start your own journey and discover the best match for your listening needs and requirements.
@Mr.M a very good and balanced response on “the switch” (or not) from CD to streaming. I agree their is no one size fits all and the benefits / downsides of each need method and the equipment to be assessed by the individual with the problem. All we can do is offer advice and hopefully make the swap (or not) less painful!!
Can I thank you for a really succinct and logical explanation of this topic? I am on the periphery of streaming at present but despite reading the forum have never truly understood the basics properly until reading this post. It is contributions like this that show the forum at its very best.
Many thanks indeed
Jonathan
Thanks for all your help, especially M.R. M.
I have contacted Accent on Music in mt kisco, ny.
I will book a demo to explore ndx2 and also Uniti core
Looking forward to an interesting learning experience.
I want to be able to rip my 700 cds and plan on using the streaming of the ndx 2 to get to hear whatever music I choose and where I can explore new artists and music.
I like the idea of keeping it all Naim
David
Always a pleasure to help and to share my own experiences from my Naim journey.
I’ve owned a number of Naim ND products including the ND5 XS, ND5 XS2 and currently own the NDX2 which I use with a Supernait 3.
I also owned a number of Naim CD players including most recently a CD5 XS. I used the coaxial digital output on that in to my ND5 XS2 at the time as a transition from CD playback to a more streaming focused setup.
I’d reiterate the benefits of keeping things simple, especially as you find your feet and establish what you want to get from the equipment. You will likely get a lot of mixed comments relating to the Naim Uniti Core as a ripper/server. It’s often compared to similar products in particular those from Melco and Innuos where comparisons are made in terms of features, value for money, ease of use and so forth.
The fact remains that whilst the Naim Core is still a reasonable cost, it is a well made product that is easy to setup and use and if your main initial focus is to consolidate your existing CD library, it will do a good job of making that straightforwards for you and pair well with any of the Naim ND streamer products.
The NDX2 also natively supports access to and playback from both Qobuz and Tidal and where needed also supports Chromecast and Airplay and even Bluetooth.
Once you have things evaluated with a demo, ideally at home in your own system, you can make an assessment of your appetite to explore things further but bare in mind it is a complete mine field of options and tweaks and ultimately the end result won’t necessarily give you more enjoyment from your investment. Sometimes it’s best to keep it simple and let the kit do its thing.
Having owned and used an NDX2 now for long enough to form a more conclusive opinion I’d say without hesitation it is a very capable and enjoyable digital source that presents the music with ease and enthusiasm and when paired with an XPS DR will likely give you a real “wow” factor and level of enjoyment that will be sure to impress.
The current range is well designed and easy to setup and use and has potential for you to grow in to it as your experience and knowledge grows.
Keep the thread active and please do share your findings, I’ll be more than happy to provide further guidance and insight as you explore your options.
Good luck and enjoy the journey!
I am a similar situation to David. Living room system is Rega Apollo, Chord Qutest, 32.5/hicap/250, ATC HTS 7s.
Novice question, but can an external hard drive or memory cards with ripped CD files be attached to an NDX2 or ND5 XS2 and have playback controlled with the Naim app?
I would likely end up streaming more than playing ripped CDs but am curious about this functionality in case my network turns out to be a nightmare.
Would a bare NDX2 be a noticeable improvement in sound quality over an ND5 XS2/Qutest?
Is there a consensus on the reliability of either streamer? Having read some horror stories about units turning into bricks and having to be replaced is frankly my biggest concern about investing in a Naim streamer.
I am also considering going with a Chord Hugo 2/2go or 2yu/2go with Roon into the Qutest because of those concerns.
Hello @snarfy, I cant help you with all your questions, but can advise that a hard drive or USB stick can be inserted in the NDX2 USB port and the music controlled via the Naim app on my iPad. In my particular case the album artwork doesnt show up so not ideal. I guess this is why folks use Roon etc. That said, the sound quality is good!
In terms of reliability (perhaps I shouldnt say this!) my NDX2 has been excellent and without faults. It is now 18 months old, so from me a "tick in the box for reliability.
Other hopefully can help with your other questions as I have no direct eperience.
cheers
Agreed on comments on direct connection. The current ND streamers have a USB input front and rear and will happily playback from there using the Naim app as a controller.
I’ve had both an ND5 XS2 and an NDX2 and had no issue with either, finding both easy to setup and use and providing a wide array of features.
Regards the Chord comparison, that will be a personal conclusion. I also own both a Chord Mojo/Poly and a Hugo 2. I do find the Poly (similar to what a 2go is for the Hugo 2) works quite well with Roon however I’m using that primarily with headphones in the evenings.
I use the Hugo 2 as a USB DAC in a fixed location.
I like the sound of both but they are somewhat different, I find any topic comparing Chord and Naim DAC’s ends up being a bit Marmite with those wanting nothing other than the Chord sound and others never really gelling with it.
I’d advise take a listen and make a judgement with your ears, the logical addition there being an M Scaler or a Hugo TT, probably a more appropriate comparison against the NDX 2.
I run my NDX2 without an external PSU and find it more than capable and musically more engaging than the ND5 XS2, which whilst being a very good digital source had me on occasion finding its limitations sonically.
There are users on here that use an ND as a transport and a Chord DAC for example. I did try a similar combo with my Hugo 2 as an experiment. Sounds fine, just didn’t want all the extra cabling and mess ultimately.
I don’t think either choice would disappoint, it’ll come down mostly to which ones DAC implimentation is favourable to your ears.
Take care. I ripped 400 plus cds to a Seagate via a Uniti Star.They were always available if needed on the Star.
I then upgraded to a nd5 xs2.The rips are of no use. The nd5 cannot read them.
Dealer has tried various ways to surmount the problem but to no avail.
The rips are now readable if introduced into the new system via a innuos zen mini but I am not to happy with the sq.of this machine.
N
That sounds more like a software issue, what was Naim supports view on that?
After two weeks trying to resolve the issue I begin to feel that It is a problem Naim are aware of.
When the dealer involved came to set up the streamer for me he seemed to know that plugging in the Star ripped Seagate would not work.
I still feel that Naim’s advertising around the use of usb hard drives on Nd5 xs2 needs to be somewhat claused.
We shall see what evolves and let you know.
N
I had similar concerns at the beginning, but after buying the ND5 XS2, I was more than impressed. Its not like Naim to offer so much functionality, the Radio Player is brilliant and adds so many more opportunities for browsing. I now find I use my HiFi so much more than before.
When comparing against my CDX, if I gave CD listening 100%, then I would say playing MP3 gets to 85-90%, and Playing lossless Music gets 90-95%. What I found was that having all your music at your fingertips, means you are a lot more likely to re-find your music mojo. The Naim app is more than brilliant for this. This outweighs the slight drop in quality, which most of the time, without back-to-back comparison, you probably wont notice. Keeping the CDX still seems a good idea, so I always have that option when I have just purchased a new CD.
As mentioned by many, there are a lot of ways to rip your CD’s from simple methods to quiet complex. I’m probably in-between. I have all my music ripped to MP3 and a second copy ripped to Lossless all on my Mac. I then use iTunes for MP3 (best for syncing to iPhones due to smaller size), and I then synchronise my Lossless Music folders to a big USB stick which goes in the ND5 XS2. The advantage of this is that I don’t have to rely on any other device to be switched on (e.g. NAS drive or computer).
I hope this helps
I agree rips made by a computer on to a SanDisk cruser will play.
No artwork though but that would be expected. The cds not in meta data memories is another story.
I have no computer,which is why I ripped via the Star.
Dealer has spoken to Naim who report that there is no solution to my quandary. They are more than aware of the problem but until more complaints are received they will not activate research to find a solution.
I find it difficult to understand that no warnings are given to dealers as this such an obvious upward path.
The dealer has given me various options to mull over.
Ah well the headphone jacks were never a lot of cop we can add USB ports to that list.
Still sounds wonderful though.
N
Hi Nick, In fact all my music does have the artwork already imbedded in the MP3 and flac files. I spent ages getting the source correct, but was worth it in the end. I mostly used some software called mp3tag which will recursively go through all your music, then you can correct anything that is wrong. Copying those to the USB, the ND5 XS2 then read them perfectly, although I do use the “Servers” icon on the App, rather than the USB icon. It sees all the artwork, artists, and album details
This in part relates to the format you choose to rip your CD’s to, typically FLAC or WAV.
FLAC is capable of supporting embedding associated metadata and cover art files within the FLAC container alongside your audio data. WAV has a somewhat more minimal set of capabilities however in practical terms it doesn’t support metadata and cover art in the same way that FLAC as a format does.
WAV was in fact originally conceived for high quality system and notification sounds and not inherently designed for longer lengths of audio data as you would find in a track on a CD as an obvious example. Compression wasn’t a design requirement at that time as the files weren’t that big as they were things like a chime when you got a new email and would only be a few seconds long at most. WAV has an upper limit per file of 4GB based on it’s use of a 32 bit integer to to define the file size header in the file itself.
WAV as a file type is a derivative of RIFF (Resource Interchange File Format) which is itself a derivative of IFF.
So this comes back to a better understanding of how best to extract audio data from a CD, to store it appropriately, format the associated file metadata correctly and then use a database to manage the metadata centrally and provide search and playback functions as well as the correct display of cover art image files.
When comparing FLAC and WAV it’s generally considered that in terms of playback of audio there’s not a lot of audible difference between the two end results and given that FLAC has the added convenience of better metadata support and embedded cover art data it tends to be preferred when considering a CD rip library and access to it.
When you use a ripper/server it will extract the audio data and extract the Table Of Contents (TOC) data on the CD with the equivalent header information in the file that you store on your hard drive, NAS or Music Server. Anything not in the TOC on the CD will come from elsewhere in an online database like Gracenote CDDB.
This is where media servers differences lie, in so much that each will use it’s own database structure and metadata database source. If at any time you wish to copy, backup or migrate your library to another front end server or player issues can arise in compatibility between database structure and metadata handling. Whilst most fields are well supported formatting and transfer issues can create problems and even mean that you may not be able to successfully migrate from one server to another. This has been highlighted with Naim’s implementation and compatibility with other storage and serving solutions for example.
Multi disc and classical recordings can be particularly problematic in terms of how they are categorised and structured with respect to metadata.
I’ve been using Roon and it’s embedded database for some time now and found it works well and when accessing it from other front ends like Audirvana it also works well.
A very useful and interesting post for me - I learned quite a bit there, thank you.
I understand there are metadata capability differences between WAV and FLAC but I thought the source of compatibility issues with other streamers was due to the way Naim assembles the limited metadata for WAV files ripped on a Naim device. That is to say, a WAV rip from another device e.g. Melco would still have limited metadata due to the format but it would at least be readable on other devices. Is that not the case?
WAV is a specific scenario and it does inherently rely on the supporting database and the mapping of the metadata associated with the actual audio file data.
Yes you are right in that the migration of a library created on a Naim server in FLAC format is ordinarily more “portable” on the basis of the metadata being within the FLAC container for each file rather than being in a seperate Naim database.
I would add here that my library is something of a mixture of file types including both WAV and FLAC however all my CD’s have been ripped in to WAV format and with minimal manipulation of the INFO field within the file headers.
I then rely on the database itself to handle the categorisation, search and playback functions, in my case that is Roon.
That is specific to Naim ripping. I use dbPoweramp to rip CDs and mp3tag to edit metadata on downloads, they add standard tags to the WAV files and these seem to be completely transportable (except oddly my Qb2 doesn’t see them on USB where it sees them in FKAC files).