And it’s obvious price isn’t a good guide either.
1 Like
I tried and prefer the Ethernet Regenerator (ER) switch with a small linear supply.
I had the Melco switch and compared it to the ER which I was then using with its bundled SM supply and the ER was better in terms of life and sponenaety. The Melco switch was over-smooth and laid-back.
Since I use and like the Melco Server I thought it would match it and be better - but it did not work out.
…my Dealer did tell me later that they found the Melco SM supply very poor and with a good Linear PS the Melco is excellent. I’d not tried that but as that put the Melco switch at about £3k compared to the £600 for the ER switch it needed to be a lot better really.
Then tried a couple of Liner PS for my ER and each improved it over the SM supply in very worthwhile ways and the smaller of the PS sounded best, so that stayed.
Also tried the Innuos Pheonix switch, hoping it may be better - but for me in my system after 10 days of home demo I could not get it to fly in my system - it sounded too controlled and closed-in at top-end and generally laked life compared to the ER.
Others find differently - I think my system being Active shows things differently.
DB.
2 Likes
How? Can you document the set up that gives you a level of network quality independence. Thanks
1 Like
Sure, though I have mentioned in numerous posts here in recent years…
But essentially I use well designed Streamer with good internal digital decoupling / LVDS etc , specifically a NDX2, I then take its galvanically isolated digital output signal, specifically encoded over SPDIF, and feed this into a separate DAC, specifically a DAVE.
I have found with this setup, variation in basic home network setup becomes in audible.
This has proved so successful, I now can’t hear any sonic difference between a Roon server wifi connected, and a UPnP server Ethernet connected.
Also I have found with this setup there is no difference what so ever whether my streamer is connected to my so-called ‘audiophile switch’ or not, specifically an UpTone EtherREGEN. My current data switch I connect my ndx2 now is a fairly old Cisco Catalyst 3560
It all has become a lot simpler and less tweaky and I can simply enjoy my music more easily.
Now… I am not saying everyone will experience the same, as I don’t want to spark some controversy, but it works for me 
3 Likes
@Simon-in-Suffolk we’re just about to move to NDX2 as transport into nDAC.
We have a Cisco 2960 next to BT router which improved things with 272. I see you’re still choosing to use a Cisco with NDX2, so we will try with and without once system burnt in.
1 Like
It’s not so much a case of choosing that catalyst switch specifically for the NDX2, that is the switch I have supporting the Ethernet sockets for that part of the house.
I note your imminent setup, I am sure you will enjoy the NDX2.
BTW the NDAC I found sensitive to out of band perturbations that affected the feel of the resultant audio… so interesting to hear how you get on. I found the NDAC rocked with non DR version of the 555PS which I was lucky enough to have when I owned my NDAC. The 555PS DR seemed to not gel as well with that DAC. The NDAC is not by current standards the most insightful of DACs, but it does have a slightly pronounced region in the 80 to 300 Hz range in my opinion, which can help rhythms and drive… which it therefore tends to do very well, but you might find the ndx2 more insightful on its own or with an off board powersupply.
1 Like
Ah ok got ya.
Well, a bit like the NDX2 vs nDAC experiment we have coming up, I guess whether a switch helps in our new setup will also be an experimental phase!
A fancy switch may be lower in the priority list than 555 or 300 
1 Like
Too right… I really would not spend much on a switch. You can get small quality commercial grade switches used for not very much these days.
1 Like
The 2960 we have is an older blue one which, whilst providing the convenience of ssh for management and setup, has the older kettle lead onboard PSU at back and cabling at front. Difficult to make it look neat. Same for a Cisco SG110D we have lying about.
If we keep a switch would likely like one which is small, works from basic wall plug transformer and has all cabling on one side.
If we don’t have EE8 on our profile will people take us seriously 
1 Like
I would stick with your older 2960… it is in the same catalyst family as my 3560. 2960 being a layer 2 device and 3560 layer 3 capable device… which is kind of irrelevant for what we are discussing here.
The power supplies in the commercial devices are usually well screened… and tend to provide the required negative and positive voltages required for Ethernet, without needing extra potentially noisy DC to DC converters which a switch would need if just using a simple single DC Power supply.
2 Likes
Thankyou for the advice, I think this is the first ever Naim forum post to save me any money
3 Likes
I found pretty much the same with the Melco switch, albeit a different unit from a different dealer. Very disappointing…
2 Likes
I would agree with Simon that you should keep the Catalyst switch. The internal power supply is not just any old noisy consumer grade thing. By comparison I used a Cisco SG series switch a few years ago and it was the most electrically noisy thing I’ve ever owned.
2 Likes
Hi Chris, how did you determine the SG switch was noisy?
I ask because I have an SG & although the SMPS did make some noise using the AM/SW radio test, it was not as ‘noisy’ as the Netgear it replaced.
A side story: After trying an iFi SMPS on the SG, which failed within a week, I replaced the Cisco SMPS with a Friwo MMP15. Its quiet according to the AM/SW radio test & DC voltage off & on load proved to be very stable & robust.
1 Like
Hi Mike, mine was an SG 300 series switch. Although it had an offboard SMPS, the switch itself failed the SW radio test dismally.
3 Likes
OK, thanks Chris, my SG110D switch seems quiet on the radio test when tested with the Friwo MMP15 SMPS (I didn’t test it with the original Cisco SMPS)
Investigative juices supressed … means I can enjoy F1 followed by footie.
2 Likes
It’s easy to get paranoid about this stuff. I think the lesson I learnt here is that not all switches are the same, and a Cisco badge does not in itself guarantee that any particular model from their huge range will perform well in all respects.
3 Likes
Other than technically that is INCORRECT. Linn should know better. Fibre Ethernet connections provide complete isolation from common mode noise, and even out of band signal noise, but they do NOT isolate you from Ethernet traffic noise, and possibly more importantly poor quality link layer clocking from the connected switch ports of noisy network components. It is this latter aspect that some so called ‘audiophile’ switches focus on, and also this area that some media converters are poor on.
I feel sorry for the poor consumer needing to navigate this even when distinguished companies like Linn give over simplified and therefore ultimately misleading information… perhaps as evidenced by this thread.
Now if Linn used the word ‘mitigates’ or ‘reduces’ noise, or ‘eliminates common mode noise’ (the same that occur with audio interconnects) then we would be good and correct, but no… it has to be over simplified hyperbole that then as a consequence misinforms…
So anyone reading this please understand Fibre Ethernet connections do NOT provide COMPLETE isolation from noisy NETWORK components.
5 Likes
It is misleading, I fully agree on this with you. I’ve had numerous conversations with my local friendly Linn/Naim dealer many times on the subject, I even got in to a heated face to face discussion with the chap from Melco on one occassion at the same dealer, they seemed to have reached a very absolute conclusion on the magical properties of optics, along the lines of “no noise” “clean connection” and so on.
I guess if you’re trying to sell someone a £10k layer 2 Ethernet switch you have to jazz up the sales pitch a bit, but when it drifts into magical assumptions and claims it needs to be called out for what it is. He got huffy and walked off, once he realised I wasn’t a well heeled music lover but a telecoms engineer with 20+ years experience in network design and hardware development that could run rings around his spin.
3 Likes
If I understand well, you think that Melco is a bit snake oil?
1 Like