Crazy plan to try proxy server!

Streaming Audio
1

I’d like to use a proxy server to get Tidal files part processed en route to my 272 for (hopefully) better SQ.

I don’t have a NAS or Roon.

I’m aiming to load Bubble upnp server software onto my old ASUS laptop.

And load Lumin or Kazoo onto my iPad.

And see if that works.

As the laptop is connected only by wifi to my isp router, all the files will fly twice thru the air on the way to the DAC.

But I’m hoping this wifi loop to the laptop and back won’t negatively affect data transmission, and on balance it should improve SQ because it will transcode the files to wav before the hit the streamer?

@Simon-in-Suffolk and others - Does that make sense?

And am I missing anything?

Or is there a better way?

And should I use Lumin, Kazoo or something else as a control app?

2

If you can get a hold of an Android device, the BubbleUPnP app is the best one for the job in my experience.

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3

I don’t have a smartphone.
And borrowing my wife or kids’ smartphones is not workable.
So that’s not easy to achieve.

Why is the bubble upnp app the best control device?

4

Well, I’ve tried a few other Android apps. The BubbleUpnp app is well made, responsive, and does its job well. It can be used like the Naim app even without bubble server installed in your home network. It can play internet streams like Radio Paradise flac to your device, play from a local nas, Tidal and Qobuz, and more.

If BubbleUpnp server is installed in your network, you can redirect the music to it via the app to transcode the Tidal/Qobuz/Radio Paradise flac stream to wav. It’s miles ahead of other apps imo.

I don’t use Apple at all, so I can’t compare with what is available on that platform.

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5

What do you use at the moment for the Naim App?

6

You can run Bubble UPnP Server on the ASUS laptop and it will work fine. But a laptop is not the ideal platform for running Bubble UPnP Server. Why don’t you plug a 35$ RPi into your LAN and run Bubble UPnP Server on it? An headless RPi can run 24/7 with minimal consumption and is all what you need to run Bubble UPnP Server. The one wired to my router had been running for more than 4 years without a glitch until I replaced it with a new RPi 4 a few months ago.

The Lumin app and the Linn Kazoo app are quite acceptable but, if you want the highest reliability, flexibility and browsing experience, buy a basic android tablet and load Bubble UPnP (the control point, not the server) on it. As suggested by @dknk, it works better than most other control points, included the Naim app.

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7

The laptop was a good test for me and offered a noticeable improvement. Once I was happy I then bought the Pi for my permanent solution.

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8

Hi Jim, in that setup, in addition to transcoding the other benefit a proxy server does is provide regular consistent frame timing during the media bursts. This will be most pronounced with Ethernet. Wifi, unless this is very lightly loaded with no neighbouring Wi-fi traffic on the same or close by channels, is not going to sound as good due to the greater inter frame timing differences in the media bursts.

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9

I run the Naim app on a work iPad right now.

10

Ugh.
Just spent 2 or 3 hours clicking on download sites.
Including looking at one advice thread on audiophile style.

I think I finally got java 8 downloaded (maybe) and then that enabled the pc to download Bubble upnp, I think?

But the linn Kazoo app I downloaded from the App Store on the iPad last night is still empty, it keeps looking for rooms, but finding none.

This is a known problem according to the Audiophile Style thread.

But I have tried to do what they say is the solution, but I cannot make it work.

Also there’s something on the Bubble download site about making bubble present itself as an open home renderer, which I’ve also tried to do.
Giving it a name and password too I think.

Also tried instead to Get Lumin from the App Store on the iPad to control bubble, but the
Lumin app is all whited out, nothing in it, just white empty boxes with thin black lines.

I’m not an IT guy, and have a very busy job and 3 kids.

This is exactly why I have never bothered to try getting a proxy server because I don’t want to spend hour upon hour fiddling around with researching stuff I know nothing about.

I’m sure I can do it, it’s just a question of how many hours I can find to work on it and whether it will be a waste of time anyway as it’s going to go through WiFi.

I doubt there’s much anyone can do to help me on this though, as you cannot see my screen and I will struggle to even describe all the detailed issues unless I sit there are ages without interruptions typing in the boring details.

It could hardly be a less user friendly thing.

Fine for single people or retired people, but not fun for me.

11

I totally agree, unless you like fiddling, and to be fair reading these threads many do, it is not that straight forward to set up a proxy.
This is where pre packaged products like Roon clearly have an advantage… albeit for a price.

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12

Jim, how about giving Audirvana a try? I run it on a Mac Mini, but should be a simple install onto your ASUS laptop, and overall much less fiddly IMO than the various Bubble configurations.

Audirvana offers a free trial and is fairly priced for a registered version. Several members here have found it offers a worthwhile SQ improvement.

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13

is it a upnp proxy server?

14

Not sure tbh.

‘Audirvana connects wirelessly to your system using the universal network protocol UPnP/DLNA.’

‘Audirvana Plus is not a media server in the UPnP/DLNA sense, but a Control Point, and also serving the audio data as per the requests sent by its Control Point feature.’

Quotes above are from their website – and don’t fully answer your question. Maybe our resident experts can give you a definitive answer.

For me it’s a reliable platform for streaming Tidal and local files into my N272, with improved SQ over the Naim app.

15

I am not sure that I understand what you are trying to do.

Installing BubbleUPnP Server is straightforward by following the instruction on bubblesoftapps-dot-com. No need to look consult audiophile style or other forums.

Once BubbleUPnP Server is up and running, you connect to it by entering “rpi7:58050” in a browser (on any networked machine) where “rpi7” has to be replaced by the name (or IP address) of the machine that runs BubbleUPnP Server in your network.

At this point you see a screen as described in bubblesoftapps-dot-com under “Configuration” and you proceed to activate/deactivate the services, again, as per instructions.

Linn Kazoo, the Lumin app and the BubbleUPnP app (not BubbleUPnP Server!) are UPnP (DLNA, OpenHome) control points.

They can be used to control UPnP (DLNA, OpenHome) servers and renderers in your LAN and have directly nothing to do with BubbleUPnP Server.

Also, please understand that BubbleUPnP Server is neither a UPnP (DLNA, OpenHome) server nor a UPnP (DLNA, OpenHome) renderer as explained at bubblesoftapps-dot-com.

If you are not sure what BubbleUPnP can do for you or if you do not need its services (let apart being busy with your job and with your kids) why do you care about it? Just enjoy your music!

16

thanks - hopefully those will be useful instructions
I’ll give it another try when i get a chance

I think it will improve SQ for the reasons discussed above - that’s the only reason I’m bothering to try it - certainly not for ease of use nor for the control app

17

It’s easy to fry your brains trying to follow instructions you half understand, but I must have been lucky, as I managed to set up BubbleUPnP/Lumin without too much trouble. Maybe if you come back to it fresh, you’ll get it working. There is, as you say, no reason I can think of to use it other than to improve Tidal sound quality. Although it does let you use Qobuz too if you prefer it.

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18

Yes.
My curiosity (plus a bit of pride) makes me want to make it work.

But I know that there’s no way I’ll stick with it because if it’s any good I’ll then buy more ethernet cables and wire the pc into the system.

But then that will draw a bunch more noise into my router that will also zoom around the system.

And anyway if the upnp thing does work as everyone says it does, that raises the question as to what is the best affordable way to organize it?

In the end is a Qnap nas going to be better than running the proxy server on my knackered 5 year old Asus?

And would a Melco - say the cheapest M100 - also give me upnp or a proxy server?

If so, then perhaps I should go straight for that a stop messing around.

If anyone can tell me whether a Melco M100 or an Innuous or some other good quality nas would be a better way (in terms mainly of SQ but also of reduced IT hassle) to get the same thing, please let me know.

thanks
Jim

19

I would be curious to know if an Innuos box, with its Tidal support, might provide a similar advantage to a proxy server like Bubble or Roon.

20

Do you stream from Tidal into a DAVE (without MScaler)?
Still with a Unitiserver and Synology nas?

Do you still find local streaming is better than web streaming from Tidal/Qobuz?