One of the first thing it says is to toe in the anchor speaker, right after it says to move it out from the wall. I didn’t when I set up my Thiels using it and only played with toe in once I had them positioned and then I used the minimum, but that’s Thiel CS1.6, they can sound a bit bright if pointed at your head.
I would have thought if you removed the spikes and have the speaker sitting directly on the floor it’ll completely change the bass resonances compared to with them on
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So much depends on the speakers! E.g. it can’t be used with speakers designed for back against the wall (at least, not unless you want no bass).
One day when I have a few hours spare (probably not soon!) I’ll have a play - after all it costs nothing apart from the time. But I’d be surprised if it manages better than my setting up using REW, though if it achieves the same it would obviate getting a microphone for anyone serious about the setup.
So is one of the main objectives of speaker place to avoid a hard rendering of bass notes such with the Ballad of the Runaway Horse?Mine feels alright loudness-wise, but I wouldn’t want to listen to forever.
How should it sound and which adjustment (toe or forward from/backwards toward the wall) is needed.
I should also add that I am demoing the Naim loan 552DR (1 week now) which may still evolve. The interconnects where in unopened packaging on delivery. In most other respects it delivers a beautiful sound with a really good soundstage, which is what placement is about.
Phil
Having heard your system on Monday, Phil, I’d say that you have a very good set-up with a soundstage extending beyond the speakers and with front to back depth too. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
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I’ve used this method a couple of times but I’ve never heard the horse track until today, not sure I want to hear it again. Anything with a good range of bass notes will do the trick.
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Yeti, How did the bass notes sound? Phil
Not as low as I’d expected, quite well textured but not very prominent, I didn’t notice any room modes being excited but some of the earlier notes seemed a bit weak, like they were fluffed a bit by the bassist. I played it through my NBLs so not speakers set up using this method, it didn’t tell me I needed to adjust anything.
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@Yeti, Yes, the double bass note is not that low (London Grammar ‘If You Want’ album opening track (Hey Now) is really low). I guess what is being looked for is some variation in the notes in the sequence. Some being weak or fluffy presumably is not right.
I’m not sure if I need the demo 552 to settle more. @Clive,Thanks for your feedback. Quite afraid to tweak.
Phil
Don’t forget to adjust all the screws in the room and put a picture of a black Labrador on the coffee table.
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Played it again. There are two alternating notes equally spaced to begin with finishing with different spacing.
When I listen to her voice with eyes closed, in my mind it then intensifies as if truly in the room.
@Clive, Maybe I leave things and wait for the 552 to settle.
Phil
I would have thought a great recording of a piano played by someone using most of the keyboard would be a good choice for setting up a soundstage. With one speaker going through the high notes and the other speaker going down the low notes and both speakers “driving” the listening space together to bring about an acoustic resemblance of a large instrument energising a lot of air.
Any good recommendations of such a recording ?
Thelonius monk
Watarase by Fumo Itabashi
Gogo penguin
Nils Frahm from All Melody
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I also found and read this useful document.
It is not the same. Bob Robbins acknowledges his Sumiko training in the 1970 but he has developed the concept especially creating the soundstage using the rake.
TOBYJUG - How big is your piano?
PS I always wondered if Elton John was standing at the mike or should be sitting at the piano?
My remedy "You have got there - so now just listen to the music - or It is time for the funny farm*.
Another hint (from experience) is when you have achieved a satisfactory placement NEVER be tempted to tweak you position based upon a single album or track - it may be a “duffer” (and there may be nothing you can do about it - just go back and confirm with other items you were satisfied with).
I recall a 1950 jazz live album (nothing wrong with being live - many jazz albums of the era were and many are great) but maybe the mike position, recording, mixing, mastering or lack of opportunity for another take were the issue.
The interesting thing was it stood out.
Tweaking should not be an ongoing experience - not varied mine for ages.
My system is for listening to music.
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The idea of the dreaded “horse track” is that it contains centred bass and voice. So firstly get best bass by adjusting positioning from the wall etc and then working on centering the voice and bass with the placement of the other speaker.
Streamed from Tidal, where the track had the cover of the Famous Blue Raincoat album displayed, and played through my NBLs the voice was central, the bass was to the right unless I used the mono button when it went central to join the voice. If there’s a way of telling which mix Tidal offerend I haven’t found it but I’m willing to assume that bass to the right was what was intended for this one given the effect of the mono button.
And haven’t decided I didn’t like it, pushed the speakers back to where they’d been previously. It now sounds great, primarily it’s much more focused and smooth esp voices on R4. I’ll assume the rake adjustments were much more effective than I originally thought.
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I finally watched this whole video. So you followed his process and the sound suddenly snapped into focus? Were your speakers far from where they were beforehand? Was it the rake that mainly did it? If you had a laser beam on the top centre of the speaker pointing forward as he suggests, would it have gone thru your ear or above to to the side of your head (and how far)? Are your speakers now toed in more or less than before?