I tried this, but the shark kept falling off the speaker before the frikkin’ laser beam was steady.
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[quote=“Paul_C, post:27, topic:1349”]1930s blues, 1950s jazz, rock or classical works.
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This is what I listen to too.
So why not use tracks like this - say Ray Brown or similar - instead of ‘Hootie and the blowfish’ (who??).
pesky shark!
was it juggling with chainsaws?
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Why would that be?!
If you had a laser beam on the top centre of the speaker pointing forward as he suggests, would it have gone thru your ear or above to to the side of your head (and how far)?
You should definitely have the beam above the ears.
Depending on how far the tweeter is from the top of course. If you have a speaker with a top pod mounted tweeter, then yes.
Although will depend on the way some speakers are voiced. If you have a neutral flat response you could have the tweeters firing at the ears. If like most designs nowadays with a rising treble you might want them higher than the ears so more mid bass comes through - or even lower than the ears so the sum total including early reflections etc comes through.
No idea. I noticed a while ago that the image is off left, and then realised that it was more left for NAS music than Tidal. Mini-discs & tapes (yes I have a cassette deck) are similar to Tidal. My balance slider fluctuates between 0 and 2R (my choice, not some autonomous activity in the app) depending on what I’m listening to; it’s not an issue.
Another way to do that is measure the two back corners of the speakers distance from the wall.
But according to Bob there’s no point in doing that - just listen with your heart (and your laser).
These are the two suggested “set-up” tracks.
As I suggested when you are happy then go play your music catalogue.
Ray Brown (much as I like his recordings) may not be very useful to the initial set-up process.
Why do you need to change the suggested set-up process?
JimDog - My speakers were different to before - more toe-in. It was the toe-in that created the sound. DO THIS BEFORE MESSING WITH THE RAKE. The rake created the soundstage.
I am sure there is no standard template because of room variations. Do not concentrate on symmetry but go step by step using your ears.
Fair point - I’ll try it.
Listening last night and this morning after watching his video I noticed that all the sounds and voices are coming from about 3 feet above the floor! I think the rake will help with that, using front and back spikes. I also have a set of longer Naim spikes in case they are needed.
Well, Mike-B said that he toes in his speakers to cross at the listening position, so I aimed my tweeters at my ears and that worked wonders with the soundstage. That was months ago. And I’ve played with it since as other changes were made.
Robbins mentions the ‘acoustic centre of the room’.
I play across the room lengthwise as he suggests.
But at the moment I’m about a foot right of dead centre between the end walls.
The left hand wall has a large bay window in it - the right hand wall is French windows. But both of these are covered by full length lined curtains, so there are hardly any side wall reflections at night.
I think I’ll have to move the whole ensemble left another foot to try it from the centre though.
cheers
Jim
I think you have an issue that it might be useful to correct. I cannot believe Tidal would be generally off-centre and your similar NAS situation suggests a problem elsewhere. Is it the streamer or the amps or the speakers?
You could try these diagnostics:-
Reversing the streamer channels (if you have separate units)
Reversing the speakers
Checking the output on input to your cassette deck if it has a good VU meter
Examining the NAS files with something like Audacity
Checking with a good Mono source or file (identical channels not by using the Mono button).
PS I always felt my late Quad 33/303 had a minor off-balance issue so I know what you are experiencing.
A word of caution, without denigrating what is being explained here, also a comment on the off centre sound stage.
We live in a 1960s estate house, the lounge/diner, in common with many houses of that era it is an L shape. So 23’ 7" by 11’ 10", you can add 1’4" into the window reveal. The dining area narrows to 8’ 6". In a domestic setting it is impossible to listen across the room because there is a 6’ wide chimney breast 6’ from the end wall. The speakers therefore have to fire down the room.
The point of this, the 6’ gap is filled by a unit, the base full of LPs, the shelves books. Except, 1’ 6" in front of and to the left of the left speaker is a flat screen TV.
I have a right biased channel imbalance, caused by the reflections from the TV. It is pointless trying to set the speakers up without covering the screen with a heavy towel. If I do that, the image clearly moves about 9" to the left.
@Paul_C thanks for this thread. Its helped me get my system back since changing my speakers. I was following what the manufacturer recommended and using symmetrical positioning. For me its made a massive difference and I have not got to adjusting the rake bit yet. I know have much better midrange and bass and overall imaging. One speaker has more toe than the other and the other is further out in the room. One thing though both are massively closer to the wall than I would have expected or is recommended. So it shows how much room layout does effect things,
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Glad you found it useful.
WHEN you are fully satisfied with the sound move onto the rake. I am sure it will make a similar improvement.
I understand the difficulties you have. Many people do not have an ideal room in terms of size, shape, construction etc. and have to deal with various obstacles.
However despite these issues if you can use the process to compensate and achieve an improved sound over what you started with then that is a plus for you.
Whilst this had improved things I can’t find the spot where the voice is centre when I move round the room. This bit is proving difficult to achieve. @Paul_C have you managed this bit?
Yes it is like when someone is singing or speaking in a room and if you move around they have not moved. Keep experimenting with the toe-in. Are you using the two set-up tracks?
I used the Jennifer Warnes one. I restarted it today as I think I chose the wrong bass postiion and it’s much better now. But I think I can get it better with more time, something I don’t have at the moment.
Just raked my Naim speakers back as far as they will go.
This is limited because hey are designed to sit on plinths on three metal bearings and the back of that tripod is at the back of the speaker.
But the effect is great.
A definite uplift in the whole soundstage.
So a Big thank you for suggesting this
I used some of your tracks but also the powerful and brilliant track Short Stretch of Day by Robocobra Quartet.
Because of the limit of tilt I still don’t have the vocals at full standing height, but it much better and I may pad the speaker plinth gap and try tilting them even further…