David vs Goliath (and request for speaker advice)

I took the hybrid approach for my stand-mount speakers. Spikes between the floor and stands but Isoacoustics OREA between the speakers and stand.

Indeed that is what IsoAcoustics recommends for standmount speakers:

If the speakers are fastened to the stands, then they tend to act as one and the GAIA series are recommended for installation on the floor stand.
If the speakers are resting on top of the stands, then we recommend isolation between the speaker and the stand. The OREA series are a great option in this case.

My previous speakers (Dynaudio C1 Platinum) were standmounts fastened on their stands with 4 bolts. So it may be that I need to get rid of them now. Adding some OREA in between would probably look hideous to be honest, so I might just live without them. The PMC stands do have some isolation both on the bottom and top plates, so that might be enough.

By the way, when I removed the Isoacoustics, I could feel vibrations arriving all the way to the sofa, but that was not necessarily a bad thing :innocent:. Not sure what the neighbours will say about that… :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:

I tried some Oreas beneath my Nova and it really messed up the sound. I wouldn’t let the horrible things near my speakers. Stick them on with blutac and enjoy.

Isn’t it a risk the blutac become gluetac and merge with the speaker veneer and cause damage to the finish? When I had Harbeth I remember Harbeth told users to avoid it since they had seen so many damaged speakers using blutac.

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PMC recommend it and in fact include a piece in the box with their stands, which seems unlikely if it was going to damage their speakers.

To separate speakers and stands, when blutac is used, always twist the speakers, rather than just yanking them off.

My ProAc Tablettes were fixed on with blutac and when I removed them after two years, there wasn’t the slightest mark on them.

Maybe PMC and ProAc make their speakers better than Harbeth?

I guess it depends on how picky you are. I’d never put blu tak near my speakers if new. I had some of rubber on my fraim for a while that left marks on them impossible to remove. I’d use feet made for purpose.

Kevin Scott of Definitive Audio and designer and maker of Living Voice speakers recommends using four little blobs of Blue Tak under his Auditorium speakers to fix the speaker onto the base and even includes the Blue Tak in the packaging with the speakers.

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Feet are only made for purpose if that’s what the speaker designer intended. Otherwise they are just an add-on that may or may not work. Oreas etc between speakers and stands look really rubbish.

Indeed I do not want to add unnecessary complexities to my system. I’ll keep the speakers as the manufacturer intended (i.e. with spikes and blutac). However it will be some time before I use the blutac, as my floor is completely non-level and I need to readjust the spikes whenever I move the speakers. That’s easier (and safer) with the speakers off the stands. So first I need to optimise their placement (as well as the cables that will go through the stands) and then “anchor” them down.

I guess it depends whether you trust the manufacturers recommendations. Blue tac was under my MFS (as recommended by the OEM) for many years and came off with no issues whatsoever. I have never seen Naim recommend using rubber on Fraim.

Well Naim feet are rubber too (except 5-series) but some feet suck up the oil from the material they are placed on which leave marks. You can see in the blu tak thread this happened to those speakers to meaning even though the blutak is removed you see marks in the veneer. Everyone can take their risk, I’m just pointing to that there is risk and leave it to others to make their own decisions :slight_smile:

You can clearly see it here as light areas where blutak has been.

Some resellers also leave warnings. Anyway, up to everyone to make their own judgement :slight_smile:

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Sorry, I meant aftermarket products. In the case of Neat, they specifically recommended blutac but I agree, it can affect some finishes.

Are you sure Naim feet are actually (pure, natural) rubber, rather than a synthetic polymer such as silicone or some other viscoelastic substance? I have no idea…

The way I do it is bluetac (a small pea-sized piece) in mid frame at corners of the stand, and on top of it I put a square of release-paper as originally backed sticky labels. the bluetac spreads to a thin film under the (considerable) weight of the speaker, filling any gaps, while the release paper ensure it doesn’t stick to or mark the veneer. It also avoids the stand sticking to the speaker, which is undesirable with heavy speakers - but perhaps desirable of small/lightweight.

I believe some people are using blutac to form a firm couple between the speakers and stands to prevent the speakers from toppling over. By placing a small piece of paper between the blutac and speakers defeats the purpose. Instead of using blutac and piece of paper, you can consider getting some foam or rubber footers and stick them to the stands. Easier that way and neater.

I used to have blutac between the stands and speakers many years ago but don’t use that anymore as it really destroys the base of the speaker. It’s not a major damage and it doesn’t really matter if it’s cheap budget speakers but it does matter when you treasure the speakers and regard them as a gem especially costly ones.

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Yes, that is to what I was alluding with the final part of my post.As for rubber feet, they of course wouldn’t prevent toppling, but compared to, say, screwed-on stands rubber feet may have a more of an effect on sound than a thin film of blu-tak. BTW I’ve only used that blu-tak approach with very heavy speakers (48kg+), never having had any small standmounts.

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So, after a couple of running in months, time for an update.

Last month I replaced all my power cables to PowerLines along with a WireWorld Matrix EU, as some good second-hand opportunities came up. I can’t really tell if there was any difference comparing to a single Powerline in the SN2, but at least I ran out of upgraditis options :sweat_smile:. And I have a DC1 cable waiting for me in UK to pick up during XMas, so then all cabling is done and dusted.

After that, I decided it’s time to go ahead with finalising the speaker cables. Given the length needed (~5.5m) and the ensuing cost of some options I had in mind (i.e. Tellurium Q Black 2), I narrowed down my options in used NACA5 and Kudos KS-1. No possibility to audition KS-1 really, so I bit the bullet and ordered a pair from Analogue Seduction. It is a deceptively thin cable for what it achieves! My pair arrived with simple gold plated bananas and the wire is connected in the bananas via 2 screws. Hopefully that’s good enough :astonished:.

Anyway, compared to NACA5, KS1 is definitely a step (or two) up in my system and for my taste. There is more focus in the midrange, giving me the final bit of “warmth” that I was missing with the PMCs. The sound is also clearer and it’s easier to notice and follow different instruments and nuances of the singer. At the same time the whole presentation remains coherent and rythmic.

NACA5 in comparison probably remains the king of PRAT, but at a cost of some “grunginess”. It demands all your attention, whereas the KS1 is also OK with being a bit more in the background. I would find myself lowering the volume down with NACA5 after a while, whereas with KS1 I can keep increasing it without any discomfort or fatigue. KS1 even makes my crappy Greek music listenable in a HiFi system :innocent:.

So now everything is in place and I don’t feel the need to tinker anymore*. Just listen and discover as many albums as I can… Stayed up late last night and couldn’t bring myself to bed, which is always a good sign :+1:.

PS1: *I visited a HiFi shop in the neighborhood for the first time yesterday, and I was drawn to the Artnovion Avalon Flow panels that they had installed all over the place. They look so good and would probably add a bit of diffusion in my room which wouldn’t hurt. But they are damn expensive as all things in this hobby… :scream:

PS2: I also visited a HiFi show in Brussels yesterday and I can’t say that I was impressed by what I heard. The best sounding system was a pair of PMC Fact 12s (what else? :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:) driven by Esoterica electronics. Also a system with Totem speakers and Chord Electronics was quite nice. The rest was either boring or unlistenable. No Naim in this show. But I didn’t find missing anything when back home, which is also a good thing :+1:.

PS3: Maybe time to delete my account from this forum to keep myself safe? :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:

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That looks very nice. I use KS-1 with my PMCs, with Naim plugs at the amplifier end and soldered bananas at the speaker end, which seems to be the optimum way of doing it. Because the Nova is to the right of the right speaker, the Ks-1 is 5.5m for the left speaker, but only 2.75m to the right. I discussed this with the dealer before getting them made up and their view was that having different lengths is better than coiling up a load of spare. The Nova is pretty flexible, and this might not be such a good idea with a ‘proper’ Naim power amp such as a 250.

Why do you think I ended up with KS-1? :sweat_smile: :sweat_smile:
I decided to go with straight bananas and equal lengths in order to make the cables easier to sell on the second hand market in case I didn’t like them. But they are definitely not going anywhere!

I suppose I could optimise the plugs in the future, but thankfully I am very happy with how the system has now balanced out with this last change, that I am in no rush to touch anything.

Honestly, I feel that, after 10 years, it’s the first time I really enjoy my HiFi without any niggling doubts. :scream: So I owe you a nice bottle of wine/whisky/whatever-is-your-prefered-poison if I ever drop by your neighborhood! :wine_glass: :wine_glass:

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