[quote=“Innocent_Bystander, post:67, topic:28481, full:true”]
If you don’t mind, did you listen to anything else when you got the twenty5.26? I’ve been listening to a few options over the past couple of weeks, and there’s a very reasonably priced (for NZ) set of Twenty5.24 that are available (although my heart is still set on Fact.8 or 12, although they’re not available for demo in NZ)…
I didn’t get the 26. When I got my first PMCs, replacing my ancient IMF RSPMs, I listened to Twenty.26, Fact 12 & MB2SE at one dealership, EB1i (secondhand) in someone’s home listening room, and MB2SE & B&W 802d2 at another dealership, in all cases also listening to my IMFs in the same room. I wasn’t interested in anything below the 26 as I knew they’d be a disappointment after the IMFs. The Twenty.26 was not as good as my IMFs, and an instant rejection. Fact 12 was better in some ways, though I felt they were a bit constrained - perhaps better in a smaller room (a few weeks later I heard in a different room and had a better impression of them.) The MB2 beat all others - however the EB1i was remarkably good, better than the IMF and with price very much on their side, and for reasons I’ve explained in another thread I went for them - only later to regret and accept the inevitable, changing to MB2! (albeit not the latest SE version). The B&W, whilst superficially capable enough, simply confirmed my preference for transmission line, the similarly priced MB2 being distinctly better to my ears.
Completely spot on! They are booming like hell and muddying the low frequencies, unless I add a digital filter to reduce the 45Hz frequency. And I bring them over 1 meter into the room which is not really reasonable…
Indeed it’s clear that I will replace them. No point (and no budget 
) to improve the front end. The search is on (after 10-day school break 
) to figure out what I want from a speaker that works in my room…
You can try to avoid the final solution, but it’s SBLs what you need here if your wall is solid. I assume it is since this is an older house.
This is what they are made for.
Solid wall indeed it is. But not sure I want to go this way (also looks not approved by OH 
). And not that easy to demo them obviously…
So, it’s been a busy week in terms of listening. Following the suggestions of the dear forum, I went on the search for a dealer stocking Neat SX3. Thankfully I found one who is also a Naim specialists and also had the Sonus Faber Sonetto I at hand for comparing with something I am familiar with by now. This visit ended up in some very educational last few days (but I am still not closer to deciding my ideal speakers… )
Part 1: The store visit
The (very friendly and helpful) dealer had set up a NDX2 → SN3 system to try out different speakers:
Then the audition took a different path: We listened to Audiovector R1 Signature which were placed on a furniture (not stands) and fed by a Uniti Atom. The dealer recommended them as an option that could be possibly combined with a subwoofer, so I happily obliged. During the audition it became clear that they give very nice 3D imaging and details without being bright. I would say that they do have a bit of the warmth (not as much as the Sonus Faber of course) that I was missing from the PMCs. They are also quite fast and tuneful, but definitely not as fast as the PMC 21i.
So I decided to give them a try at home to see what the fuss is about… . And as that dealer was also stocking REL subwoofers, now was my chance to check them out in action. So the dealer kindly offered to bring the Audiovectors and a (brand-new) REL T7x at home for me to try. And there start 5 interesting days… 
Part 2: Home audition
The kind dealer came home, fine tuned the position of my speaker stands at a reasonable position not too far into the room, adjusted the Isoacoustics GAIA and installed the Audiovectors + REL T7x. The subwoofer was connected via the high level connection to the right speaker only, for avoiding to make a mess of the cable. The result should be indicative enough anyway. On top of that, we connected the speakers via a pair of Chord Epic XL cables. And finally, he suggested to remove the bass traps from the rear walls for improving the reflections of the tweeter (in the Audiovectors, the tweeter is also rear “ported”). I didn’t get any nice pictures, but here is how the setup ended looking like:
Today, when he came back to pack things, he also brought along (after my request) the ND5XS2 to compare as a transport vs the Allo Signature into the nDAC, as well as a pair of ATLAS speaker cables to try out something at a lower price point. So many permutations to try out and easy to get lost… I will summarize my findings below.
Part 3: Evaluations
Bass traps
Following some REW measurements, I got flatter mid-bass response by having the bass-traps in the corners (I put them on the two left-side corners as the REL was on the right front one). So that stays there for the time being
REL T7x
The sub was brand new, so it never performed to its full potential, as it needs plenty of running in. Overall I configured it at pretty low gain level to get a positive impact. I tried the room corner, as well as in the middle of the room, in front of the Naims, where I could get a more flat bass response. Towards the end of the week I could get an idea of their positive contribution if set up properly, with a nice “filling-in” of the sound. Didn’t manage to get a perfect set-up, but I can understand their potential.
Speaker cables
. Plenty of PRAT, relatively dark sound.
). Anyway, I decided to do a comparison, starting with the assumption that I wouldn’t manage to hear a single difference. The setup was:For this comparison we used the Audiovectors and the Chord Epic XL speaker cables. This is probably the most transparent combination of speaker/cables I had at hand in order to maximise the possibilities to hear a difference.
We tried “Another one bites the dust” for comparing the PRAT, and “Hijo de la luna” by Monserrat Caballe for a more layered piece. Both streamed at CD quality using Tidal Connect. My (sweet and patient ) OH sat in the sweet spot and listened without knowing which transport was playing.
My wallet is unhappy to report that ND5 XS2 won hands down this comparison… 
. More PRAT, more bass, more authority. My OH got the goosebumps (repeatedly) with ND5, which didn’t happen with Allo… Blimey!
There were some threads in the past asking for a comparison of these two transports, with no clear answer given. Well the answer is clear now I am afraid…
Nd5xs2 vs Allo Signature as transport - Streaming Audio - Naim Audio - Community
ND5XS2 vs Digione Signature as a transport - Hi-Fi Corner - Naim Audio - Community
I didn’t compare the ND5 XS2 on its own vs Allo+nDAC, so the question in the thread below remains open
Nd5xs2 VS DigiOne Signature + nDac - Streaming Audio - Naim Audio - Community
I was really surprised to experience such a clear difference between the two transports… As well as hearing clear differences among the speaker cables… Wasn’t expecting that… So at least I am not that deaf after all 
.
Where to go from here… I still don’t know. Planning to audition the JERN speakers in the near future. Maybe also give a shot at the new entry-level PMC Prodigy in a couple of months? And a lot depends on what appears on the second-hand market. Even though I feel a bit bad to shop second-hand after all this help I have got from different dealers. The last one was so so helpful and passionate, that I offered to pay him something for his services, but he refused. For sure I am grateful for meeting some great people along the way!
That doesn’t look like a speaker problem, it looks like a healthy obsession to me
But seriously, maybe put a blanket or duvet over the TV.
I still think you’d be best shooting down the room rather than across it as it would get you further away from the speakers.
Also sometimes speakers need a long time to burn/settle in, if these demo units are new then maybe they haven’t had enough time.
One last thing, if you’re using a Lavender source cable then maybe try something else. I’m sure your dealer will lend you some to try.
Anyone who says quality of digital transport isn’t Important can be safely ignored (the “it’s just bits” argument).
Our NDX2 sounds fabulous into nDAC, as you’re finding with the smaller sibling.
We also have a RPI with digital hat and it’s fine into SuperUniti but well outclassed into nDAC by both the naim streamer and an old Micromega CD transport.
Not tempted to try a 333 as transport, then? Somebody has to go first 
If it had a new streaming board maybe…
But as I posted previously, finding out middle of last year that NDX2 800 board was being used in new 333 streamer was the clincher in us deciding to go for NDX2.
Still tempted to put an XPSDR on the NDX2 though 
My dealer reckons he can hear an improvement over NDX2 using an ND555 as transport!
Not saying we’ll never get an ND555 but surely way ahead for us if we did would be ND555/555PSDR and ditch nDAC!
Identical DAC chip after all. And no transformers in the ND555, so same advantage as old NDS over nDAC.
Still can’t refute the allegation we might try NDS in place of nDAC. Straight swap with easy resell. 2k vs 10k.
Our most trusted dealer said we’d really need 552 to make most of ND555. But with used prices dropping who knows what might happen.
Generally I don’t believe the dealers….but here, yes. Same transport, ok. But it’s not all. Noise, vibrations, EMI/ RFI….are more controlled on the Nd555. Have not tried, but i would be surprised to not hear differences.
Someone recently tried the Nd5xs2 vs Ndx2 as transport into an external dac and found some improvement with the later, even if not night and day.
I have not tried, so only a feeling from me. I know you haven’t personally found a difference comparing both with a Chord dac. Maybe you didn’t wanted to hear it 
or maybe there’s no difference….
.
To be fair he wasn’t trying to sell me an ND555 transport, we were just chatting and he had tried it out of curiosity in his own system, Dave into 552/500.
Excellent summary.
ND5XS2 is a gem.
That’s why we might try NDS in place of nDAC. No transformer, suspended boards etc.
We know we’re chasing minuscule improvements at our system level.
Adding an XPSDR to the NDX2 would also remove a transformer from the brains stack, but we’re not sure how many DR feeds are used from PSU into NDX2 when used as a transport, so could be a waste of time.
Healthy? That’s very optimistic…
I’ve tried putting some pillows/blanket in the past, but no real difference. Right now I am doing some experimenting and the TV is out. And that does make a positive difference.
I’ll give it a shot this weekend now that everything is upside down and I have some extra long (amazon) speaker cables to see what I get… Previous attempts with suboptimal positioning didn’t measure that well, but now I should be more flexible.
These speakers are well run-in so no issue there. HiLine interconnect used from nDAC to SN2.
So in the end I didn’t try that out, as the sofa gets in the way for optimum placement and it is not a long term viable solution…
On the other hand, I decided to keep the Naim stack in the corner, as this gives me two benefits:
The main issue now is of course the need for longer speaker cables. I patched up a pair of 7.5m from Amazon (€50 together with some banana plugs), but obviously this solution cannot stay for too long… Any suggestions for a cheap decent cable at 5.5m? Looking at WitchHat N2 cable at the moment which should be cheaper and more convenient than Naca5. Even though the cable choice might depend on the final speaker itself, so possibly no point to change at the moment.
In addition, I am considering to replace the stock power cables of the nDAC and the HiCap with something (much) shorter, but of potentially higher quality, again at a modest cost. Main motivation is to manage the cable mess behind the Naim stack, but any concurrent sound improvements would be welcome. I came across the MCRU No. 75 EU Schuko Power Cord which is available at 0.7m and should do the job. Any suggestions here? The SN2 is on a Powerline which will stay. The extension board is the “Music Line Netzleiste Plus”, so essentially a decent simple block with a Powerline.
Regarding the speaker themselves, I’ll be arranging an audition of the JERN 11 in ~10 days. Real life intervenes in the meantime…
