dCS Bartok as a one box solution

Hi-Fi Corner
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Well if its any help, i will quickly give you my findings as like you i had a NDS/555dr before i went looking for the whats next step.

Like you probably, i have been into naim for over 25 years and got the naim sound that i enjoy built in and its hard sometimes to move away from it.

DAVE DAC :- found it was great at detail but lacked weight and prat and just didn’t do it for me at all, plus i wouldn’t be surprised to see a new version out this year, with a better headphone amp and possibly the m scaler built in, so perhaps not a great time to buy one new, plus dac only its expensive and start adding m scaler, streamer and its stand to try and make it look nicer, then its suddenly got very expensive.
Added bonus can also do pre amp duties if digital only system.

ND555 :- didn’t offer a bigger difference over the nds, yes it was slightly better but certainly not worth the £10k difference in price, but i can see why people buy it as its the easy option to keep the naim sound plus the extra features its brings are nice, but again i already feel its being left behind.

DCS BARTOK :- as a one box solution at £10k i found this simply great, the new mapping sounds detailed and has nice prat, and i found it very close to the Naim ND555, infact it was hard to separate them on sound and if being totally honest i think the Bartok just has it and at its price point thats a bargin, plus you can add the clock to further enhance it and with DCS approach to future updates and upgrades then its not something you will need to be swapping any time soon and thats very nice to have in this fast changing area of hifi, plus you can have the headphone version if you so wish at extra cost.
Added bonus can also do pre amp duties if digital only system.

DCS ROSSINI :- well i think you already know about this one, right from the start it just grabbed me and has not even now let me go, its just fantastic.
It has everything, all the best bits Dave can do and chucked them into the ND555 and the result it great detail and prat. It what i wished i had heard when i first went to demo the ND555.
But just when you think it can’t get any better than this, throw in the clock and it all just gets a bit better, dont ask me why as i havent a clue, but you can certainly hear the difference and i have twice sat down off an evening and played a track and thought that doesn’t sound quite right, only to realise i haven’t switched the clock on.
Plus it has the upgrades and updates capabilities that DCS offer going forward and has already had the 2.0 upgrade since its launch which made a massive difference to the way it sounds.
Plus i must just add the streamer is superb and the quality off qobuz is great and on par almost with downloads on the melco, but also mine is the player version and until the other day had not even tried it, what a mistake that was, its cd playback quality is stunning and beats streaming and anything the melco can throw into it ( at the moment )
Added bonus can also do pre amp duties if digital only system.

Never tried the premier so cant give you any views against the above, but if you are looking at say the Bartok with a future view off adding the clock, i would try and resist if you can till you can get the rossini, as the Bartok and clock are about the same price as the rossini and then add a clock to the rossini when you can.
As like i said ths rossini and clock is something you should try as i really do rate it highly.

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250

dcs bartok and atc smc40s incoming, to compare with 272/250dr and power supplies/ruarks. Should be a fun week or so…

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251

Congratulations and enjoy!

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One bit off advice, try to keep the volume on the Bartok at 75 % min, as i like other found that if you go below this the quality startw to suffer and you will here it. Its a big shame really as lts the only think that lets it downas the rest is stunning.
But you can adjust the output voltage and this might just be enough to make it work for you at different listening volumes, but its also a pain and being honest the volume is at its best when left at 0.0 as its not interfering with the single then and for that you will need a pre amp still.
But see how you get on and one thing is sure you will like the noise that comes out it, just remember the volume issue when you get it up and running

253

OMG

Bartok and ATC SMC40a’s are outstanding. A late night of listening is in order…

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254

Yes, I did enjoy my home demo. of the Bartok with my 40A. Although I do agree with Dunc, at lowish volume and/or a lower output voltage , and I found the soundstage/dynamic range does shrink - drastically so in my room for me. You may have better luck than I did.

But at decent volume, my goodness it was very, very good.

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I have tried removing my naim 552 out the mix, made some cables up and gave it ago, as plenty off time right now lol.
The main problem is the digital volume control, fine if you leave it 0.0, but as soon as you start turning it down, so does the dynamics.
You can just about get away with it till -6.0 db, after that its down hill, but really once you know it effects the sound, you dont really want it in the mix at all and that means leaving it at 0.0.
I tried adjusting the output and trying to keep the volume at 0.0, but its just to loud even at the 0.2 output when going into the 500dr, so no good and so just put my 552 back in.
Its a shame that the volume makes a difference, its not huge, but it does sound different.

Just to add, if i put the output to 0.2 v, the volume at 0.0 db, using my naim 500dr amp and pmc fact 12 speakers, the volume is just too high for normal listening.
Using above and the output voltage at 0.2, the digital volume would be at -7.0 for it to be the right volume for my room and system
At 0.6 v, the volume is at -17.0 to be about the same.
At 2.0 v the volume is at - 30 to be about the same.
At 6.0 v the volume is at - 37 to be about the same.

I could use it at 0.2 v and get away with it most off the time i guess, but its not ideal and knowing that it could be better is not great for your sanity and when you have the pre amp anyway, it would be simply stupid not to use it, so i can get the maximum performance out the rossini.

Anyway thats what i found, but i was using home made cables that i made up using silver quality cable that teddypardo uses ( as i used these and just put RCA’s on the end)
I would still like to try the balanced out direct to an amp, but as my 500 isn’t balanced i can’t, but i do wonder if that would bring a better result overall.
The other problem i have if i wanted to go this way, is that i have a turntable.

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I have an Allegri+ attenuator/preamp due next week to use on my Bartok so I should be able to bypass the Bartok volume control. It’s taking some playing around to research what adapters and cables I need to allow a balanced feed for my ATC power amps. Everything should arrive next week :slight_smile:

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257

I was wondering if a passive preamp would be a good way to give volume control to your Bartok, but I see Steve has beaten me to it by suggesting the Allegri. It would also give you an input for your turntable.
I’m not sure how the Allegri would handle a balanced signal, although you could always push the boat out and try an Allegri Reference, which has balanced XLRs. Also a remote control. Not cheap, but maybe justifiable in your system. Perhaps worth giving Townshend a call, Max is a helpful type.

258

Yes… I wanted to go to balanced but the Reference was a few grand too far :frowning:
So I’ve also ordered (and also due next week) ‘SONIFEX CM-ULX1 PRO-INTERFACE Passive, unbalanced RCA phono to balanced XLR’. This was on the advice of Simon in suffolk :wink:

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259

I finally got around to have another go at a critical listening session with my MSB Premier DAC.

Now with 200+ hours on it. I’ll dot point better - same - not as good as the 252/NDS that I had before.

Better:

  • now its gone to clearly better dynamic range than the Naim rig. Clearly better/clearer treble. It seems to go from soft to loud easier - but not with annoying grit or harshness. But that was at my usual 85-90db wig out listening sessions sound level reading at my chair.

Same:

  • Vocals about the same, perhaps a bit more intimate with the Naim.
  • Soundstage is as big and wide on both.
  • PRaT roughly similar, but the Naim was a tad more involving , not much in though TBH.

Not as good:

  • Micro and Macro detail. Naim has the edge here, I thought it peered a bit deeper into a recording and presented a bit more of it. It’s close though.
  • Low level listening was much better - with the 252 being better at low level listening enjoyment and detail.

So, I’ll keep it as in this retail environment it’s going to hurt too much to change to something else.

The reason being I have the base level Premier set up. I’ll get an extra Discrete PS soon and that my dealer assured me will increase the PRaT and slam factor over only 1x PS.

I am going to agree with this sentiment as every Naim PS upgrade has shown a similar change in the PRaT and slam factor for me (I know - different brands, but the science & thought process is clearly similar).

So I can basically upgrade every 12m (that’s my own rule for upgrading toys) to:

  • Ethernet Renderer Module.
  • Swap out 2x Discrete PS units to a MSB Powerbase PS.
  • Upgrade the standard clock to the Femto 93 version.

I firmly believe that will then make my Premier DAC pull well ahead of the 252/NDS that I had previously. My test will be the addition of the second Discrete PS. If it’s no or minimal change, I’ll have to revise the above upgrade plan & perhaps look at alternate options.

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I hope it all works out ok for you and you end up happy with it, just a shame that it needs more money chucking at it.
I hope that it does in the end come good, but it is a gamble and one which could end up costing you even more.
Adding extra power supplies in my opinion isn’t going to change the sound signature that much and i think you might be trying to talk yourself into it all, rather than i feel, you just dont like the way the dac sounds and thats not going to change.
Thats the problem when you buy blind, just going on reviews you read is never a good idea, as we all like different sounds etc.

If it was me i would be cutting my losses now and mark it up as experience learnt, unless you can get all the extra bits you want on a free demo, if not then think hard about it all.
But i should think your dealer will be more than happy to do that as he is so confident it will do what he says

261

Apparently it doesn’t make a lot of things better, more the opposite.
Have you already bought it or you can return it to your dealer?

If you can return it, instead of putting 22k on something that is finally not really better, just different, I strongly recommend you the Melco n1z2. It upgraded strongly my nds/555dr for 3k( ex demo) . My nds is very very near now vs the nd555 / common nas, for local streaming.

If you can’t return it, I would save money and buy later the femto clock, which will give you a more involving sound, with more slam.
The clock is the key. ( see Msb reviews on forums)

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262

Perhaps if your dealer is willing, you should audition both the extra ps and the clock so that you know the SQ inprovement of each relative to its cost. That would define which way to go and it might be better to make changes soon if the deal is proper. You might have more leverage right now after purchasing the MSB–in year or two’s time, this dealer might not be so cooperative. You night be able to put together a “bundle” for a lot less money in these times, if you are in a position to go ahead, and then have it done.

I had a similar situation some months back, and did the deal, even though it was painful at the time, but it was well worth it. As they say “YMMV”.

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I did email my dealer to see about a loan of an extra PS and the Ethernet Renderer Module. I’ll pay the shipping both ways. I don’t think he has the Femto Clock module for demo, I’ll ask though.

If that doesn’t improve things, then I know it will be time to move in another direction instead of pouring money and time into a lost cause.

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264

Nd555 2x555ps +Melco n10 + Sarum T Ethernet between them sound good :call_me_hand:

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Just good :rofl::rofl:

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I’m polite with a humble personality but smiling with my music :rofl:

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267

By the way french… I’m getting next week matrix2 world wire power block ,but without power cord …need to check which one to take ,not too expensive decent one but still good enough…any recommend?

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268

If not powerline, maybe isotek, Russ andrews, chord…
I like isotek and find it well matched for Naim.
Some second hand on bay site maybe…

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