@xcentric . Very aptly put … nice.
Yes nicely put.
Thanks for that long response. But I just don’t know why you choosed to respond to me.
I wasn’t refuting anyone experience and enjoyment with dcs gear. It’s evident that this brand is among what’s is best in digital today.
I just prefer Naim presentation. No need to be convinced, and don’t think one is superior to another one in the same price level.
Enjoy the music, the reason of the system and what is common to us here.
just that you’d said much earlier that you’d not found many people who’d become dCS/Naim people - much of the rest of the post was for general consumption, obviously.
Ah ok. I think all was already said and said again on that subject. I will not add anything.
I was actually surprised at the number of people on the dCS forum who run full Naim systems yet are not members of the Naim forum here.
I guess something to do with it all being UK hifi. Quite a number of ATC users over there as well.
Best
Gregg
PS nice detailed writeup - thanks
You used same method as me for measuring the level of bites in each leg. Tab10s , SS6 and Attabites are a magical combo.
Curious, I could find a dozen of threads in the DCS forum where members have Naim too.
I see only Glevethan, Dunc, Par, Gordiau, on all the threads related to Naim.
In the most respectful way I too am curious. Why do you post on this particular dCS thread and what particular interest do you have in it? It is a serious question as I am trying to figure out what contributions you are trying to make here. Your only comments are not positive contributions but rather seem only to question and challenge the findings of the other posters who use or like dCS gear.
I am not looking to be confrontational just simply trying to understand where you are coming from especially considering there are so many other threads on the Naim forum which may fit your interests in a better way such as the NDX2, ND555 and other Naim streamers.
Just trying to figure out why you exert so much effort on this particular thread.
Respectfully
Gregg
Only God knows my real hidden intentions.
Personally I am not aware of any negative intentions, apart putting things in appropriate perspectives.
Well atleast one more new ower of a rossini with naim amps in 2021, as i spoke to the dealer i use yesterday and he told me, that he had his nd555 and power supply in as trade.
Just think that a lot dont do forum’s these days
I have been reading up on this thread from time to time since one box solution even though a very expensive one sounds nice. However the only thing i read from this is that one box meaning dac/pre with a digital volume control in the dac has worked for none of the persons that have tried it?
You may add me as well, running a 250DR + Sopra 2
I guess then thank God we have you to keep things in perspective for all of us
Cheers and happy listening
The opposite actually, most on the dcs forum dont use pre amps, but just lately that is starting to change a bit
For me, the Bartok directly into the ATC SMC 40a’s was a nice sounding system, and it can run balanced cables too, and were I looking for minimal box count it would be on my list. But I was mostly after better engagement and listening experience, so additional boxes were not a problem.
Most seem to find that the addition of a pre-amp does help SQ, but I got plenty of enjoyment without one there - but for me it was a pitstop on the way, not a destination…
Of course, if you must have a single box solution, there are alternatives to DCS as well. You could have the Linn Klimax DS/3 (which is a single box streaming DAC) or the Linn Klimax DSM/2 which is
exactly the same streaming DAC but with an added pre-amp in the single box.
I am running my system using a DAC pre at the moment with no Naim pre and I find it excellent.
If you look towards the beginning of this thread you will see that I have made several posts to this effect.
As opposed to several on this thread who post judgement and opinions based solely on short dealer demos I prefer to make my postings based on actual long term (and possibly multiple) demos and even more than that preferably on actual ownership of said products.
I have owned the Linn streamers since 2011 and have made my way through the KDS/1, /2, and /3 - which I still own today. I came to the Bartok last February when I desired to break headphone listening away from my 500 system and into the bedroom. I demoed the Bartok on multiple occasions and took ownership in March. I had the ability to extensively demo it agains the Linn KDS/3 as I own BOTH units. One of the things I continue to love about the Linn is that it is a single box solution and has a built in streaming board fed by ethernet. Both Linn, dCS, and Naim (as opposed to Chord) believe in the superiority of ethernet streaming as opposed to other methods of connection. I found the Bartok to be 95% of the performance of my KDS/3 - at almost 1/2 the cost. It was upon that realization that I took it upon myself to have a Rossini and Master Clock delivered to my house with the option of returning it if I was not happy.
I found the Rossini/Master Clock to be significantly better than the Linn - and did so after lengthy at home comparison and ownership of both units. I did not come to my judgement based on quick dealer demos. I also did not have any “pony in this race” as I continue to own both units and no interest or bias in finding one unit to be better than the other.
Finally if I was confronted with the choice of a Bartok DAC at $15k vs. a KDS/3 at $25k I would take the dCS and pocket the $10k. The 5% incremental performance would not be worth that amount of money to me.
I think at the end of the day dCS, Naim, Linn and Chord solutions represent the top of what UK manufacturers offer and I am sure that anyone would be happy having any one of these fine streamers in their system.
In terms of testing with your own ears I fully agree - however I have also found that I have made several friendships on the forum with individuals who share similar tastes and opinions to myself. I have faith in their opinions and frequently use them to additionaly guide me while I search out alternatives.
One close friend who posts on this thread OWNS the ND555, KDSM/3, DAVE, and Rossini/Clock. What better person than him to get some honest thought out feedback from.
Best
Gregg
I assume that you are based in the US since you quote $costs.
I would just make a couple of points. The Rossini/Master Clock may well be ‘significantly’ better than the Linn KDS/3 to your ears, but as is the case with all subjective comparisons, what is significant to you may not be significant to others. Also of course, the Rossini with Master clock is very much more expensive than the latest Linn KDSM - £24k for the Rossini/Clock vs £15,800 for the Linn, and the Linn is currently on offer at one large UK retailer for £14,200 - a very substantial cost difference.
I would also add that the price difference between the Bartok and Linn DSM is significantly less in the UK than it appears to be in the States - £15,800 (currently £14,200) vs £11,500 for the Bartok.
Finally, although the Rossini and master clock are almost impossible to purchase 2nd hand, the the latest versions of the Linn DSM or DS models have been out for significantly longer and (the current Katalyst models) are now readily available on the 2nd hand market for around £8,000. Now that is very fine value for money (even if £8,000 is an almost obscene amount of money to be termed in this way) for an extremely fine sounding one box solution. The Rossini/Clock may be better, even significantly better, but I can’t conceive of a difference in sound that would warrant an additional £16k.
I hasten to add that I have nothing against DCS streaming DACs. I am certain that they are extremely ‘good’, and that anyone who can afford them will be very happy with their purchase. I am simply pointing out that other very good single box solutions are available as alternatives, and potentially at lower cost.