dCS Bartok as a one box solution

Better is always subjective. I heard the bare Rossini vs Linn KDSM recently, during 1 hour, both on the Supernait 2 and same speakers as mine.
Both streamers cost around 20k here in France.
The Rossini was more upfront, more jumping on you, with a bit more extension in the notes and bigger soundstage.
But the KDSM was oh so more magical, natural and balanced, more analogue like.
I was searching if I could upgrade my Nds. The reason of that listening.
The case and one box shaped aluminium of the Linn is much more elegant too, of course, to my eyes.

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@Hmack

Yes - based in the States

I agree - it looks like the pricing equation is different than it is over here.
One has to make comparisons of apples to apples and not apples to oranges. In other words my comparisons were new prices here in the States.

I definitely agree that when considering used the equation changes dramatically. Linn has been down on their luck for quite a while here in the States and it is a well worn story. Various stops and starts with distributors etc. Used prices of KDS or /M have plummeted. I have seen prices for current KDS/3 models for less than $8000 ($25k new) so when compared to a new Bartok at $15k then agreed the Linn is a screaming deal and value. One could purchase a SN and front it with a Linn for less than a Bartok. I would jump immediately on the Linn in that case.

I am holding onto my KDS/3 with the hope that Gilad will not abandon me. He almost did a few years ago when the KDS was marked end of life and the KDSM was the only one remaining in the lineup. My understanding was that a good number of dealers complained and it was finally reintroduced to the lineup last year. My hope is now that it has returned it will not be left out of the upgrade path and a KDS/4 will eventually appear.

Then again that is not necessarily written in the cards as the chassis has been the same since introduction in 2007. It could be that these are the last of them and a completely new design will surface. If this is the case than current owners will be left out of the upgrade path.

I would not complain as Linn have looked after us since the beginning and I have been allowed to stay current and update from /1 > /2 > /3. This was a major reason I abandoned Naim for streaming (as well as the performance back in the day when I made my decision ie HDX and then NDS) and I took up with Linn. Similar reasons why I have now cast my lot with dCS due to their continual upgrade path via firmware enhancements. If I would have bought a HDX or NDS back when I purchased my KDS the only way to upgrade would have been to bin it - no longevity when compared to dCS/Linn.

Best
Gregg

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@Hmack it’s perfectly possible to buy a Rossini + clock for well under mrsp in the UK if you’re prepared to hunt around and talk to people…

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Frenchrooster,

How do you find the Linn KDS compared to the Naim NDS and N555?

I would be interested in hearing your opinion.

Best regards

Hans (Linn KDS owner)

I didnt buy mine new, as with everything if you look hard enough, and willing to wait, you can normally find what you want.
I got my rossini player and clock for less than a rossini dac, yes they are harder to find than say the nd555 second hand, as it seems most owners only sell them, if they are stepping up to the vivaldi, but if you contact dealers, they will let you know once they get anything in

Compared to my Nds, I would say that the KDSM is more refined, nicer sounding, with a bit more details. But the Nds has more grip and authority.
For me they are a bit on the same level.
The Nd555 is a turbo charged Nds. Same presentation, but a bit more of all.

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HansW
If you are demoing preloved KDS’s please be aware there are SIGNIFICANT differences between all 4 versions. There is also the option of the RENEW’s

Best
Gregg

Thanks

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Thanks for the tip Glevethan but I already have the latest KDS version, upgraded from the previous version. Now wondering if it is worthwhile to pursue something else.

Hans

Well if you look over this thread you can get an idea of different opinions. I tend to put a little extra credence with those posters who have actually owned things rather than just dealer demo them.

The bar was set pretty high for me having owned the /1, /2, and/3 (I still own the/3). With that said the Bartok (owned for 2 months) and now Rossini/Clock passed the high bar set by the Linn. There is another poster on this thread who is a good friend (he can chime in if he wants) who owns the Linn,ND555, and DAVE. He now owns the Rossini and that is the one staying in his system. It seems like since you own the Linn the Rossini and ND555 would be the top candidates to demo.

As I posted above - between dCS,Naim,Linn and Chord I think you can’t go wrong.

Wow - pretty impressive the Brits as they have control over all the top digital source devices :smile:

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There are a lot more top digital sources out there : MSB, CH Precision, Soulution, Nagra, Merging NADAC, etc… to mention just a few.

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As far as I can tell, when folks go to the level beyond Naim (Soulution, DartZeel, Dan D’Agostino) they never use Naim streamers. It’s almost always dCS. I just figured it was a superior source, and in the next echelon of kit.

You are missing MSB (from California, USA) and Tambaqui.

I had an in house demo of Bartok and Rossini. Rossini is surely quite a kit. But I was not impressed with Bartok. I found NDX 2 better than Bartok (to my taste).

Regards,
Sourav

With all hifi gear, your own personal taste and the rest off your own gear that you use will make the difference.
Once you get to NDX2 level and above, then really they are all good, and personal taste sets in, system balance is very important to hear what the difference is, between them.
I feel dcs owners like the very detailed sound it has, but it also is very involving, has a lovely wide sound, the Bartok is a great product at its price point, one box, and with the headphone amp built in, it could be the heart off a very good system, just add an amp and speakers or even active speakers and your done.
The rossini, and especially if you add the clock, just takes things to a higher level, probably the sweat spot in the DCS range, for price for performance. I think the owners that have moved over from say naim to this set up, are just after the extra detail and width this has over say the nd555, as it does has the naim prat, that others can lack. It might not suit all and nothing wrong with that, but having compared quite a few high end dacs, plus having been a naim source owner for 25 years plus, i have the naim prat and sound, well and truly embedded into me i think, and i have liked that sound, and its hard to move away from it, without felling that you are missing something, thats why when i first heard the rossini, for me it had that naim prat, but it also had more, more detail and a wider, 3d sound to it, that just made it for me.
Yes its expensive, but so are the others, i hope its my end game dac, probably hopping a bit too much on that front, but we will see, i hope DCS will keep on supporting it for many years to come, and i can look forward to a few updates along the way? But we will see.
But as said before, we have nothing to lose in trying different kit, and competition is good as it keeps everyone on their top game, but whatever you choose enjoy your music, as thats all it is.
Cheers dunc

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Dear Glevethan,
I have read your posts with great interest. They have been very valuable. Thank you.
I have also scanned the thread to find your friend, without success unfortunately. It’s a long thread.
Hans

Hi!
It’s a jungle with lots of choices but challanges in auditioning alternatives side-by-side in a system similar to your own. That’s why reports from people with personal experience is so valuable.
Hans

It’s true, generally the sources are DCS, MSB, Meitner, Lumin, Soulution…
But these forums are generally from USA, like audiophile style, Whatsbestforum, Audiogon…and Naim is very rarely used, as electronics or sources.
Outside Europe, Naim is not so known as Dagostino, Audioresearch, Esoteric or Kondo. And Naim is very expensive in US.

Hans, as you are searching something to replace your KDS3, I would advise you to listen to the Lumin X1. The price is much more competitive vs the competition, if you understand my English / French.
I heard it a long time with 252/300 and same speakers as mine at my dealer place. I compared it to the Nd555.
I was very surprised at how good it was sounding, at 1/2 of the price of the Nd555.
I had, after maybe 1 hour and half, still a preference to the Nd555. But maybe I am used to Naim presentation.
The X1 was sharper on percussions, had more extension in notes in general. But less organic sound vs the Naim.
On voices and acoustic instruments the Lumin sounded more real, and generally sounded also more dynamic and open.
For general involvement, both are on the same level. But the Naim is a bit less forward and perhaps a bit better articulated.
The look of the Lumin is however not completely for my tastes, even if very well built.
I would add also that I could read on some forums that a few guys sold their Bartok and took the Lumin. 2 guys preferred it to the Rossini, founding the DCS majoring on details but the Lumin sounding more refined and real.

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Hans
Personally I would stay with your KDS over the Lumin. While I have not demoed the Lumin I have an intense dislike for the product and the company. As a Linn owner you may come to the same conclusion after reading my story. Then again - you need to make your own decisions :grin:

I was a long time member of the Linn forum which unfortunately is now no longer - a big mistake on Gilad and Linn’s part. Many years ago before Lumin even released their first streaming product a new member of the Linn forum claimed to have owned a Linn KDS and stated he was interested in writing a software control point app for use with our Linn’s. He asked if forum members could act as beta testers and give him help, feedback, and comments on their Linn hardware. This process went on for approximately 6 months until he finally released a rather polished control point software app - without any branding to it. It truly seemed it was his own work and was being put out for the good of the community as back in those days Linn stressed open source and encouraged independents to develop software solutions.

Imagine our surprise when it was discovered that this individual was not really a Linn user but rather one of the lead engineers tasked with the development and release of Lumin’s first streaming product. Imagine our further surprise when Lumin’s first product release looked remarkably like an outright blatant copy of our Linn DS’s.

Unethical to say the least.

Your mileage may vary

Best
Gregg

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That was very sneaky and not very nice off them at all gregg. Certainly not a company i would want to support, if thats the way they operate.
Looking at what the reviews say about it, it maybe about just on par with a Bartok, certainly not nd555 or rossini level, looking at it and its spec / price, i think i would rather have a Bartok over it, but thats me, but if what gregg said is true, i would want to entertain it whatever.