The P10 sounds lovely and has a great atmosphere and ability to pick the detail out, it did beat up the nds with the right record, but now i would say they would be very much on par with each other, but havent tried it as yet.
The reviews i have seen on the Bartok and rossini have been good and i certainly dont feel the same way as bluesfan did about them, but we are all different and like different things, as i found the chord dave very bright and light sounding and it wasnt for me, but others love it
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Dunc have you experimented with Bartok direct to NAP?
I would be interested in your impressions direct vs NAC
Hi
I dont has the right cables to do that sorry, as with having the rega P10 I need a pre amp and so it’s not something I was interested in trying.
Heard mixed reviews on this, some like it other feel it goes a bit leaner, I haven’t a clue
Dunc I also noticed this with Bartok vs 272
My go-to bass test track is Deeper by Pete Belasco, give it a try
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That’s okay Dunc. At the start of our auditions, the Bartok was the one we wanted to like the most, as DCS is a local firm. It was not to be. However, if it works for you then I wish you every musical reward via your new Bartok.
Best regards, BF
Thats fine as we are all different.
But one question that i highlighted above in my post, can you remember what the volume and output was set at ? As i have found it makes quite a difference and not sure if dcs recommends the volume to be set at max? So much more dramatic and alive.
Hi Dunc,
I left set up of the Bartok to each dealer, so do not know the answer.
Best regards, BF
Can’t you connect both the 552 and Bartok to the 500? Not possible?
@ Dunc, what is your source? Upnp, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz?
I’m still thinking about going with Bartök.
Dunc, what speakers do you also have, just out of interest ?
Pmc fact 12, if Dunc has not changed since October 2019.
As above pmc fact 12
I have been using qobuz mainly running through my melco, but have also tried tidal and tidal mqa.
Plus ripped and hires downloads stored on my melco.
But i must say the streamer quality is far superior to the nds and qobuz sounds lovely and unlike before the ripped tracks on the melco sounded much better over the nds, now its hard to tell the difference and dont really know if i need the melco?
This dcs gear, bartok and rossini has really done my head in and is turning all of what i thought on its head.
Do i need the melco ?
Do i need my 552 pre?
Do i even need my turntable?
You see what i mean lol.
But being realist the turntable will stay, the 552 and melco well thats a different road to go down and right now i dont know the answer
But looking at what DCS does, i can a nice upgrade in say 2 years that will get the Bartok very close to the rossini 2, as the Bartok now is competing at rossini 1 level, but like most things the rest off the DCS range will also go up to a new level.
I just like what dcs do and going forward with it all, plus i like the sound its like naim but with just a bit more, rather than say the chord dave that has all the detail but just doesn’t sound quite right, to lean or whatever, it just doesn’t grad you.
Anyway right now enjoying dire straits, streaming from qobuz
Dunc, I don’t want to spoil your enthusiasm on the Bartok, however your post had questioned me.
If the Bartok ( 11k) is really better vs nds/ 2X 555dr/ Melco n1z( 28 k), so at quite 1/3 of the price, it questions really the performance of the nds.
I wonder if perhaps something is wrong with your 552 dr, because you even prefer the volume out of the Bartok vs the 552. Normally a preamp of the standard of the 552 should perform better than the volume control of a one box streamer/ Dac/ volume control.
Are you sure your 552 is running optimally?
I have the Nds and want to upgrade to a Melco n1z. However I have doubts now. Perhaps should I try a Bartok at home?
I have listened to the Rossini alone, with the last upgrade, on SN2 and similar speakers to me. But preferred the Linn KDSM. However not tested at home.
Sometimes I wonder of selling my nds/ 555 dr and buying a second hand DS3.
The streamer and dac in side the Bartok has the nds beaten on all fronts, its easy to hear the difference, it makes the nds just sound old i am sorry to say, but then it is and things are moving so fast in this area.
I haven’t tried the 552 out the system as i dont have the right cables to connect the Bartok direct to the 500, but i would like to try it, but that then gives me a problem with my turntable.
The melco does sound fantastic, its just that the gap between it and just streaming-audio from qobuz direct to the Bartok is so close, unlike the nds which lags behind.
It could be the up sampling going on inside the Bartok that is helping close the gap between melco and streamer? I dont know really.
But having thought about things a bit more, my 552 or melco wont be going anywhere, i need the 552 anyway for my P10 and got too much ripped to my melco to lose
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“ things are moving so fast in that area” . The reason I don’t want to buy an nd555. It would cost me 11 k to go from nds to nd555 and probably in 5 or 6 years it will be completely outclassed .
The DCS and Linn resist more to time, because they can be upgraded without loosing so much money as with Naim.
I think I will wait with my Melco upgrade and investigate more the DCS and Linn streamers.
After making my initial post on this thread (#4 fifteen days ago) I had the opportunity to have an extended second listening session with the Bartok at CanJam NY last weekend. May I qualify things by stating that I am approaching the Bartok from a different point of view in that I will not be using it in my 552/500/Kudos Titan system fronted by the Klimax DS/3. I am looking to separate my headphone system from the Naim one and move everything into the bedroom. As such my comments refer to demoing the Bartok exclusively with headphones rather than with speakers. In place of the Titans, I am using the Focal Utopia headphone with a Kimber Axios cable. In the headphone world this is considered an end game transducer.
Prior to visiting the DCS suite I stopped by the Chord booth and demoed both the TT2/MScaler and DAVE. I also had the chance to speak with Rob Watts and ask a series of questions having to do with how to properly feed the Chord equipment ie optical, USB etc. and how to integrate ROON. Questions quite similar to ones which Simon-in-Suffolk has asked before.
While I mostly agree that the ability of the Chord players to dig out detail and resolution is on an extremely high level I agree with other Naim users who feel they are not engaging - for me they are uninvolving and lack an emotional connection to the music. This was my second demo of both the TT2 and Dave and I remain of a similar opinion. I can appreciate what they do - however they are not for me. For those who are interested the Dave was significantly better than the TT2 - which I found thin, slightly bright, and lacking body and weight. Naim are correct in that robust power supplies with heavy duty toroid transformers are a must. This is something which DCS concurs with if one looks at how the Bartok is designed.
Another prerequisite I have for my bedroom headphone system is
the desire for simplicity and absence of multiple boxes and cables. Here in lies an additional problem with Chord imho. One needs a box to act as a ROON endpoint, many use various types of USB or ethernet regenerators, some use additional headphone amplifiers as they find the DAVE not powerful enough for certain headphones, and finally various high end cables are required to connect everything together. A veritable spaghetti mess of cables and components.
This is why for me (and obviously others) the Bartok immediately jumps to the head of the line as a definitive end game product for my listening scenario. It is an all in one box housing an industry leading DAC, a totl network card solution currently acting as a ROON endpoint as well as capable of playing TIDAL, Qobuz, and Deezer via the Mosaic app, as well as Spotify and Airplay. On top of this is the option to include an inbuilt Headphone amplifier which is absolutely beyond belief in its performance - especially considering that it is DCS’s first foray into headphone amplification. Effectively, at their first time up at bat, they hit a GRAND SLAM and knocked it out of the park. Finally DCS subscribe to the Linn philosophy in that one’s investment is maintained throughout the years with a series of software updates which continually improve the performance of the product.
Now on to how the Bartok did during my second demo. I am well familiar with the Naim sound in my two channel system having previously owned a complete range of Naim CD players (CD5/CDX2/CDS3/CD555). Back in 2007 when Linn ceased production of CD players I had extensive demoing sessions with the first Klimax DS as well as the first Naim streamer HDX and the NDS. In 2011 I sold the CD555 and embraced streaming in its totality with the purchase of a Klimax DS/1. This was subsequently upgraded to a /2 and finally a /3.
I have read that the previous DCS house sound was extremely detailed however possibly without the full involvement and PRAT offered by a Naim presentation. Many of the reviews of the new Bartok share a commonality in that they mention an increased involvement, PRAT and weight to the DCS sound - perhaps indicating a new change in direction.
When I compared listening to my Utopia headphones via my Klimax DS vs. the new Bartok I found a sound which is highly involving, engaging, weighty, and toe tapping PRAT. It does not lend itself to concentrating on picking up every analytical detail in the music (like the Chord products did for me) but rather it allowed me to be involved, engaged and tap my toes to the music. Exactly what I want from my listening playback and the equivalent to what a Naim or Linn source gives me. The music is tonally lush and rich, has an extremely well grounded and weighty bottom end, and simply makes one want to listen more and more. After my initial Bartok/Utopia demo I returned home and listened to the same playlist via my Klimax DS and came away thinking that the Linn was more refined, natural and analogue sounding - while still having considerable bottom end weight. After the second time with the Bartok I came away questioning whether or not the Linn and DCS were now of equal standing - or perhaps simply that the DCS was giving me a slightly different yet equally enjoyable presentation.
On a side note I ordered and just received the recent HiFi Critic issue which contained a review of the Bartok. This is my first time reading this very interesting “no advertisements accepted” magazine. The review of the Bartok was written by Rafael Todes - a known musician and audiophile. He was absolutely floored by its performance - especially when listening to playback of his very own concert recordings. What was of particular interest to me is when he brought the Bartok over to co reviewer Martin Colloms who inserted it into his Naim 500 reference series system and compared it head to head with his ND555. Collom’s said the Bartok had no problem going toe to toe with his ND555. These are exceptionally strong words coming from such a Naim partisan. Much in the same way I come to the Naim forum to read feedback on competing products I found Collom’s response interesting as he, like the rest of us here, share a predilection for the Naim sound.
Based on two listening sessions and comparison to my Klimax DS I have ordered a black Bartok with headphone amplifier. It will reside in my bedroom as a ROON endpoint to be used in a headphone exclusive system. After that who knows - I am sure curiosity will eventually have me experiment and slot it into the 552/500 system and have a listen through proper speakers instead of headphones. I will be curious to see how it does against the Klimax DS in a 552/500/Titan system. If it performs well then I am sure curiosity will have me demo a Rossini further down the line.
Best
Gregg
PS - sorry for the long post
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If I buy the Linn , I know that I will not have to change the box , sell it , and buy a new one.
With the Naim, in 5 , 6, or 7 years, the next nd555 / 2 will have a complete new technology, architecture, like nd555 vs nds. So another 10 or 15 k to spend.
With the Linn, each upgrade costs 2k every 6/7 years.
The DCS is upgradable by downloading. But how long I don’t know.
,
Great to see you have placed an order for one.
Well having read your post i fully agree with what been said, i demoed the Bartok and nd555 side by side and decided i preferred the Bartok over it, but not by much, but yhen the Bartok is half the price and a complete bargain.
The only problem is they also make the rossini which is all together in a different league, but still the Bartok with a free software upgrade in the near future, will be a very nice prospect and that i feel i could live with
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Spending more than 10 k on only the source every 6 or 7 years is a lot of money. For me at least.
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