I’m not expert on this but have you tried putting the speakers closer to the wall when on the long wall set-up, why do the speakers have to be so far away from the back wall?
I have ATC’s baby SCM 7’s and they live much closer to the rear wall than ATC advise, base is pretty good as a result.
As said I’m not expert.
To hear more of a direct sound not mixed with the wall reflections
I’m struggling a bit with the idea of 606’s as an alternative to ATC100’s.
I’d say that’s a very chalk and cheese comparison.
606’s are about delicacy and seamless integration and whilst they have well portrayed and size appropriate bass I’d say someone used to listening to ATC 12” bass units will struggle with the reduced scale and to ‘believe’ what they’ll hear from 606’s.
Even 707’s might not be ‘enough’ to convince you. 808’s could do it, but they are still very different to big ATC actives in their presentation and may or may not be to your taste.
I appreciate that I may not be helping you much given the geographical restrictions you have on which alternatives you are able to get to listen to, but my concern is that 606’s are just such a different proposition to giant ATC’s.
I hope the acoustic expert can resolve. And I believe it is a soluble problem, as I’ve yet to put any speakers I like in any room and not be able to find a way to make they work to my satisfaction, albeit with differences.
I had 2 different dealers and in my room we tried Focal, kudos 505 / 606, PMC, Russel K, and a few others and couldn’t get a tune out of any of them - some rooms are just dogs….
Treatment, subs and active ATC’s was the eventual answer….
Sadly a lot of rooms are not designed for hifi. For years I played the speakers on the long wall sounds very smooth easier to listen too but too much exaggerated bass which is tiresome after a while. Then my dealer played the system on the short wall I then heard sub bass impossible with even a sub on that wall but much harder to please so upgrades en sued to get the sound right. It took years of playing and changing speakers!! I also have a bloody glass window behind one of them. I tried subs but it never sounded right to me. I ended up with ATC 40s and Accuphase amp which sounded correct and when the recordings are naff I stuck the bass control on which to my amazement sounds better than a sub! It’s not perfect as the room is still bright sometimes depending on the electricity on the day. Do what you have to do it’s the music that counts. Good luck x
And depending on your ears on the day! (Our hearing varies.)
Unless you can audition 606s on a sale or return basis, they may not be the answer you seek.
Many have and enjoy 606s, I am not one of them, but they are no doubt good speakers, in the right setup.
edit - I settled for yet another pair of Ovator S400s; may be very difficult to source where you are located. They do bass very nicely, without a drawback that I found 606s possessed, which a Kudos dealer highlighted without the question being asked!
I’ll ask the question with the dealer who has Kudos.
That may well be an option, as I have no opportunity to home demo.
Will just see what my dealer/specialist that they hire for installations say/recommend first.
Maybe ask what you found as lacking with the 606 ?
That’s a very valid call. I’d have the 606 on my long wall, and my listening seat would be almost a nearfield set up. I’m not sure if they are designed as near field type speakers. The ATC’s certainly are, belong pro designed.
And 606 would have to energize - or at least sound dynamic and believable in a fairly large room.
Its been noted a few times in this forum, the UK is an absolute goldmine for having the ability to at least conduct an in dealer demonstration on a vast array of hifi.
Even home demos are usually fairly easy to organize too.
Sadly in my part of the world that isn’t the situation at all.
Kudos 606 will have pro‘s and con‘s as all speakers do have. They are very transparent for example - this can be wonderful or also revealing with bad recordings. They don’t smoothen.
Bass is perfect for a speaker of this size - a few comments have been here of the bass being artificial. This is also source dependent as is much better in my setup with 552. And all is room dependent as … this is the topic of the threat
No! It’s room acoustics. ATC’s are excellent. You need to fix the room, or where you sit. Sounds as if you’re sitting in a null spot when you lose the bass.
I’m slightly embarrassed to say this……
I had a long conversation with an understanding local hifi dealer who I’ve had dealings with in the past.
He said that he is more than happy to take my money for an on site
call out.
But he talked me through a process that he think might help - a lot. I sent him some pictures and my room dimensions and what it’s made out of etc.
He recommended moving my speakers much closer to the side walls than I thought was prudent - as in I didn’t think it sounded that great before.
But to leave the distance to my back wall the same.
Then said to slowly cm by cm, move my listening chair back. And play a familiar bass heavy track as I go.
He said the bass “should” snap right into place when I hit the right spot, but the soundstage, mid & treble shouldn’t be an issue.
He was 100% right ! I feel so foolish as to not try that before.
All the suggested set up guides that I read said otherwise. Even basic room calculations etc.
Nothing to be embarrassed about, pesky room acoustics are tricky to deal with - glad you have got a solution.
Can you tell us how close to the side wall your speakers are now and what they were before? Maybe a post a picture?
Research suggests keep speakers away from side walls and mine are c90cm but I never tried them any closer as per research so curios where yours ended up
Regards
Gary
I thought someone had suggested posting a sketch of your room, and walking around to hear where bass is better because it likely was due to cancellation… but great that it is resolved. And this is where measuring with software & microphone can assist in final adjustments to optimise, if you wish.
Gary, the back corner is now 20cm from a solid, double brick wall. The front corner is now 40cm, so a fair amount of speaker toe in. Nothing that ATC themselves wouldn’t recommend, as per their manual and lots of online reviews say the same, don’t be afraid to toe them a fair bit, in order to sharpen the centre image.
If anything, having them wider apart now has got me a better soundstage.
It was the double brick walls & concrete floor with hard wood over that.
So lots of nulls and hardly any real peaks - bass wise anyway- my dealer said.
I’ll try and post a pic later, it’s not letting me do it now for some reason.
The more toed in the speakers are the less the side radiation, sreducing the intensity of the early reflections. Of course with everything it is a matter of getting best balance of all factors in the specific room and with the specific speakers.
Very interesting, a game of trial and error it seems but sounds like your dealer had some good knowledge, glad it worked out.
I have acoustic plaster board and dense rock wool in front of a single brick skin wall.
I never tried my speakers that close so may give it a whirl. My system is sounding good but still feel it could be better! The search for perfection is a curse!
Try this [room mode calculator room mode XLS
I run Kudos 606 and they aren’t bass shy in my room but I sadly have a bass reinforcement node at my listening position. Speaker placement does little to change the bass but does impact imagery and stage etc.
My son tried them in his room and they have very little bass even when put against the back wall - he doesn’t suffer from reinforcement like me but suck out like you suggest. The PMC performed with more controlled bass in my room.
He eventually purchased PMC 25/26 as they had way more defined bass, sadly they lack the midband upper details and subtlety of the 606. They are however less critical of less detailed amps.
Putting your dimensions into that spreadsheet is free and might help an expensive mistake
