I’ve tried for quite sometime to work around a difficult room - the bass is MIA.
I have persevered with my 8m x 4m room with length and width speaker set up. With the width set up, bass is really good, however I’m restricted with space behind my speakers to about 30-40cm or so. Then the depth and imaging suffered a bit.
Via the long wall set up I can achieve fantastic imaging and soundstage as I can pull the speakers out to 1m easily. But the bass is for some reason pretty anaemic at my listening position. I’ve tried almost everything that I can think of.
I’m going to hire a specialist to come around and see if anything can be done.
Failing that, I’m thinking seriously about trying a Kudos 606, set up on the long wall (as that has the best bass output). And it’s designed to be much better near walls. As I have a NAC 322/ NPX 300 already , I’d go with the NAP350 mono amps. and sell my 100’s to fund them.
But I am worried that the active 100’s are much better speakers all round than the 606 and I’d end up regretting that choice eventually. I cannot demo the 606 where I live as well, so that’s another factor …
So, is it worth a shot to just go with speakers that are designed to work close to a back wall - Kudos 606 and just see if it works out ?
The only way is to get a Naim dealer to install the 350s and Titans and find out. You might find the 505s more cooperative. I’d be interested because I’ve always fancied ATCs!
I have a Naim dealer, but no Kudos dealer Lindsay.
That dealer is a 4 hour flight away…. hence the “best guess & best research” type assessment that I’d have to make.
I “may” be able to swing a loan of his demo 606, but that would be me paying shipping both ways etc.
These days that’s a massive cost, I may as well just buy them new and then on sell them for a bit of loss, most likely for not much more than the insane shipping fees each way that I’d be up for anyway.
Sounds like an issue I had with my room, just complete bass suck out….
I tried all sorts of speakers including Kudos 505 and 606 which sounded terrible in my room…. in fact active 40’s were the only speaker that did work and I used a pair of Rel S510’s and some acoustic treatment to get an acceptable sound.
For context, I use my 40A’s in a small room (3.7m×3.1m) approximately, with plenty of bass, probably more, and of higher quality than with my old NAP135’s and Usher CP6371 speakers.
If I am standing while the system is playing, it is very boomy, but seated it is often very good indeed, with the caveat that certain frequencies, or possibly over-eager emphasis on these frequencies at the production stage seems to set the room off.
We have a 1990s build, with my room having a concrete floor and and plasterboard walls over breeze block with a brick outer. I also have 2 French doors immediately to the right of the r/h speaker.
There is another SCM100ASLT user on the forum (@Camlan ), and his are/were in close proximity to his listening position.
Hopefully, you will get a resolution to your situation, as I too (with no empirical evidence) believe 100s on song would eclipse a pair of Titan 606s.
I did have the subwoofer in the back of my mind as well.
Have a great relationship with an REL dealer nearby.
I just assumed if my 100’s didn’t work where there are now, then a sub won’t make a lot of difference.
The more I thought about that the last few hours, the more I can at least give it a go and see.
Set up is a bit easier I’ve found out, the famous “subwoofer crawl” is fairly easy to at least get a few stating points dialled in without spending a day moving the sub around a room endlessly trying one spot at a time.
And if it doesn’t work with a quality sub. than at least I’ve tried and it’s a room issue that can’t be solved without reverting back to my less than ideal long wall setting. I’ll take that set up, great bass - but less than perfect soundstage depth, any day over anaemic bass.
Can you adjust the bass output on the ATCs? It seems you can on some – and their recommendation is to keep the 'speakers away from corners and walls. I’m in the camp of don’t go auditioning/buying new kit yet. I’d:
1- drop ATC an e-mail with more detail about your room and the 'speaker placement
2- explore any bass adjustment
3- have a look at some of the room models out there - these may give an idea of what you’re experiencing — do you have lots of glass, wood/plasterboard walls?
Some pics would assist.
FYI, my listening space is ~6.4M long and 5.1M wide. The 'speakers are (to baffle) about 2.4M from the rear wall (the 6.4ML), with the listening position at ~1.1x. Anywhere else in the space, the bass is wayward.
Whilst a specialist is an option, you might consider a bit of diy measurement using an app such as HouseCurve or REW. used HouseCurve last year before settling on a REL.
My system was active and I found HouseCurve very useful, my dealer not so much. But REL were very helpful, talking through all the options before recommending a unit best suited to my speakers and amplification.
Absolutely… though depends on placement. But remember most musical bass is between 100 Hz and 300 Hz, and low bass and sub bass is almost always mono… and in most produced music is forced mono in low bass to stop spacey phasing or suck out effects when listening in a car, mono or similar!
In smaller rooms the boundaries especially in the Y axis are pretty key. I use Turbo Traps from GIK Acoustics. They look appealing with a whole range of finishes, and you can place or stack in corners and behind the speakers… although more usually designed for smart music and recording / production spaces they really do the business with hifi too… it can be like many, many, many black box upgrades!! You will find for most loudspeakers unless you are into SFX rumbles and strong percussive pressure waves into your chest you won’t want a sub once you have treated your room.
This is a difficult one. A problem room is a problem with any speakers, though I note that your thought is if the 606s are designed for close to wall they might be better at the soundstage/imaging in that position. I have no idea if that would be the result, nor what the bass would be like, but instead I am moved to wonder if there is anything else you can try with your room, as usually there will be a room solution, though the question is what is happening to kill the bass - cancellations I’m guessing - with the speakers.
In the width position, did you try playing with toe-in and toe-out? In the length setup, have you tried walking around the room to see if the bass is right anywhere? When I moved into my present home and installed my system in the originally planned layout there was a complete absence of bass at the listening position, and I ended up with a complete room rearrangement - but mine isn’t a rectangular room so not a lot of help.
It might help prompt suggestions if you could sketch your room layouts the two ways you’ve tried, showing listening position(s) and main furniture, doors and windows.
In pro use, main monitors like the ATCs would often be ‘soffit mounted’ = set into walls that are angled towards the listening position, with front baffles flush with the wall faces, that completely removing any rear reflections and their negative effect, but it would be a rare luxury to be able to do that at home…
Room is always a problem.
Without demo option it is risky.
My 606 work good in a problematic room 25 cm from the wall - across the long wall. But you need to find a solution with demo option or better with optimization in order to keep your atc‘s
