Dilemmas

[back_in_the_game]

I am auditioning some equipment in a few days and I have a few dilemmas, wondered if you might have some helpful comments.

Equipment I will listen to:

Linn Selekt DSM Edition dual Organik stereo out

Naim NC NAP 250

Linn 119 speakers

Background:

I am retiring at the end of the year (might push into March 27 if we have a good year, one last bonus) - but soon.

I was going to wait until I retire as this would give me so much more time to audition and importantly to enjoy the new system.

I was going to have the system downstairs, but the grandchildren are all over everything all at once, as my wife acts as daycare twice a week - the general view (my wife’s) is that they’ll be pulling bits off and exploring drive units, so the new kit will remain upstairs for a couple of years.

That’s important as I fell in love with AE Coriniums, but they won’t work upstairs in a smaller room.

The reason this has all kicked off now is that the DSM and 250 are ex-dem and have come up at really good prices.

However, I have until now been keen to only buy new, for lots of reasons, so some internal conflict there.

I have auditioned the Linn DSM (single Organik) several times and I love it but I have not heard the Naim 332/333 at all - only the 222/300, which was not in the same universe, to my ears (but it is cheaper).

However, the more I read about Linn’s support vs Naim’s the more I have concerns about this being viable in the long term. Linn’s lack of support for Tidal Connect and reports of firmware issues also worries me a bit - I know Naim has had firmware issues too, but I get the sense that Naim is more committed/responsive, I might be wrong about that, plus they may have new ownership, so who knows.

The main question is should I just wait and the audition the 332/333 later (in a year or two - I doubt I could get these - and power supplies - past SWMBO all at once - domestic harmony trumps everything) and perhaps in the meantime use the 250 with a new Atom HE as a low cost (px’ing my Atom), short term solution.

The 119’s are in the mix as they are highly regarded and I’ve not heard them.

So options are:

1. Do nothing now, wait until I am really ready

2. Buy Linn DSM, Naim 250 and maybe new speakers (would the upgrade be totally wasted on my Iotas?)

3. New Atom HE, Naim 250 and audition new smaller speakers (Linn, AE, Rega, PCS,ATC??)

4. Use the 250 in my system as it is, again as a short term upgrade, with more to follow.

Obviously, my ears, my room, my money, but I’d like to see if you have any comments.

As for my system now and why I am changing:

The Atom/Iota are incredible vfm, they have served me well over 7 years and I love the sound, but there is just not enough of everything…

…I need much more boogie/PRaT, a bigger sound, more soundstage, better definition, smoother highs/deeper more defined lows - the desire to change is about getting closer to the music, not new kit.

Thanks,
Tony

[ChrisSU]

Hi, my advice would be to take your time, do it once, and do it right. It sounds like you are keen to avoid missing out on an ex-demo bargain, but you haven’t heard it and most importantly, you’re taking a complete gamble on the all important speaker/room interaction working well with the Linns.

I would wait until you have time to demo a few options and make an informed decision. Many expensive mistakes have been made by people chasing a bargain.

[BruceW]

Unhelpfully I think with so many options, and effectively changing the entire system I think what you need is a really good dealer and a plan for demoing plus home trial.

I think you need to try to settle on one element first otherwise it gets very confusing. Just watch how this thread develops for example!

I would start with the source. Do you want the simplicity of the Atom HE or can you stretch to the 333/332? Both will suit the 250 for sure. I have no experience of the Linn DSM. Then I would be using your chosen source/amp components in your room, first with the Iota and then with other options as it sounds as though the room size has some limitations. If you like the Iotas why not other Neats? Speaker choice is huge but in my opinion can be left to last once you have a clear idea of the electronics (and residual budget) and can demo at home.

I would echo @ChrisSU that jumping when a possible bargain tempts you may not be wise, most dealers will ‘find’ ex demo stock or have good deals available to a customer preparted to spend plenty of money.

Note I use Atom HE, 250.2 with ATC SCM11s in my second system. It is a really elegant, simple and suprisingly good setup but (apart from changing the speakers) it is a dead end in terms of future upgrades, whereas a seperates sytem gives you more options. Might or, might not, be an issue for you.

Bruce

[Brian]

Definitely worth hearing the 332/333 setup when the timing is right for you. Also invite Mrs Tony to the listening reviews as I’m sure her view on what sounds best will have an input to your ultimate decision.

[back_in_the_game]

This makes perfect sense. There will be other bargains, best to get it right.

With the 119’s, I am due to hear them to see if I like them, then if I do take them for a home demo.

I will go along and listen but will try not to press any (financial) buttons.

Thanks,
Tony

[Svetty]

I’d suggest getting a demo of the 333/332 - with and without power supplies. If you like them, wait. If not, snatch the ex-dem kit now whilst it’s available

[back_in_the_game]

Again, some great points.

Actually I am not so worried about the speakers, the demo is mainly about the DSM/250, I doubt I’ll buy the 119’s before I have heard other speakers, including from Neat.

I feel better about walking away now, but equally if I get the same feeling about the DSM as I have on previous occasions (and this is now the dual Organik DACs), then there is a possibility that I might take the plunge, and if I do I’ll need an amp and I am very confident of the 250.

In that case I may never get to hear the 332/333, but they may need 300’s and so it goes on. The DSM/250 could just be a great value end point for me.

Thanks for your comments.
Tony

[back_in_the_game]

Yeah, I hear what you say!

When I bought the Atom 7 years ago I went to listen to the Muso, but was disappointed, then when the dealer put the Atom on my wife said ‘wow, that’s much better’ which I really did not expect as she has never shown any interest in hifi, but she does have ears.

So, yes, maybe she should be there!

Thanks, really appreciate the comment.

Tony

[back_in_the_game]

Yeah, good idea. I will contact the dealer, see if that’s possible.

Cheers,
Tony

[Smoothfidelity]

If you know you want to build around the NC250, then there is no risk it buying it now while the deal is available. I’d wait on committing to a higher level front end until you get further auditions.

Personally, I’d buy the NC250, sell your Atom, and then buy a second hand Atom HE. It’s a tremendous 2 box combo. When the time is right to improve the front end, you’ll be in a position to do so without having wasted any money now.

[back_in_the_game]

Yes, sensible and the way I am leaning but if the dealer px’s my Atom, it is end up as being quite cheap and I get a new HE/warranty/resale value…

However, I have a feeling that I am gonna be wowed by the DSM and just buy it and the 250….

Part of me thinks that if it’s so good (and the previous dems with single Organik was) then why bother looking for more expensive options if this just does it for me…

But, another part of me thinks I will be safer/better off longer term in the Naim ecosystem.

I need to listen again, but great to get the thoughts clear in my mind.

Thanks for your help,
Tony

[Bevo]

@back_in_the_game

Could I be so assertive that you must demo the 333/332 combination along with the NC250

It’s a wonderful setup.

I did listen to the Linn DSM and whilst it is very good I prefer the Naim sound which is a bit more solid and grip as is typical , still got the prat as they say. My dealer stocks both Naim and Linn so was able to compare.

Please do compare both you owe it to yourself - at the end of the day it will be a personal preference.

Don’t rush take your time I reckon

[back_in_the_game]

Wow, thank you!!

I will.

Tony

[back_in_the_game]

Just called the dealer, he’s setting out the 332/333 for comparison.

I do not want to add Naim power supplies as it takes it into a different price band - I know it will be much better with them and will add future upgrade options, but I doubt I’d want to go there.

I will review the 119s but realistically I need to hear other speakers before I press the button.

Thanks for all your help, I feel much more confident now, following the deluge of common sense.

Tony

[GraemeH]

FWIW I home auditioned the Selekt dual Organik for a couple of weeks against my 332:300 / 333:300 and much preferred the Naim. I did think that adding the 332:300 as a pre with the Linn helped sort the music out better - I felt it needed it.

So, if you like the Linn, you might want to try it with a decent pre into active speakers? Just an alternative thought to throw into the mix.

Enjoy the auditioning!

G

[Innocent_Bystander]

Your final points suggested option 3 might not be the way to go as to achieve that might require bigger speakers.

I’d be inclined to say option one, in the meantime spending time researching, doing auditions if or when you can, maybe not do anything else yet. If this is to be effectively your final system you need to be sure it really works for you now and for what hopefully would be a good long future

[PeakMan]

Hi @back_in_the_game

I have the version of the Linn Selekt you are considering, which I use with active speakers and am very happy with it. Bearing that in mind I do have a few observations.

Firstly, it is true Linn do not currently support Tidal or Qobuz Connect, but are “looking into it”. For me, the Linn app works as well as the Naim app and I find it quite easy to get round the lack of Connect, but your experience may be different, of course. As for Linn vs Naim support/commitment more generally, I reckon it’s swings and roundabouts. Naim is very good for servicing at least where components are still available but the modular nature of the Selekt does add an element of future-proofing. If, say, an improved version of the Organik DAC was developed it would likely be possible to swap in or upgrade the appropriate module.

With SQ it’s very subjective and, given my choice, my personal preference is clear. But my Selekt is used with active ATCs rather than a Naim power amp. This does give me a very much “bigger” sound than the Atom/Iotas I used until recently in my study. You might want to audition the Linn perhaps with active ATC 20s which should work out cheaper than NAP 250 + Linn 119s.

Finally, you’re planning to spend a big sum and want to get it right first time, I assume. I do wonder if it might be worth holding off for a while, going to hear some alternatives in the interim and postponing the final decision until you’ve actually retired and can devote your attention to the hifi? Apologies if that’s too patronising.

Roger

[Sinewave]

@back_in_the_game

I do not want to add Naim power supplies as it takes it into a different price band - I know it will be much better with them

Having heard the 333/332s with and without the 300 power supplies, the value proposition certainly didn’t add up to £11.4k for me!

[back_in_the_game]

Not patronising at all, you know the system and so its very helpful thanks.

[T-elmi]

I have a Selekt Edition (with Stereo Organik Line Out), an Atom HE, and a NC250

These offer a great two-box system, or three-box system in my case - without going into a stack of black boxes and their aesthetic in my small space.

The Atom HE represents amazing value for its capability, I use it mainly for headphone listening, connected via SPDIF from the Selekt, partly because my best quality network connection is into the Selekt. In this role it is excellent into my Meze Elite headphones.

I summarise the Selekt Organik as being excellent as listening INTO the music and the Atom HE (via the NC250) as being very good at listening TO the music. in other words there is more musical detail and separation with the Organik Selekt - but both are great in their own way and the choice is partly about what you seek from musical playback. The NC250 introduces some of the naim rhythmic sound characteristics but not overtly.

I listen to the Selekt & NC250 with my speakers in the same room I work in during the day, controlling via roon (& multiroom to my Qb2) and listening mainly to good quality no-talking internet radio streams from North America (I’m in the UK).
In the evening I listen to mainly locally stored and Qobuz-provided music from my own library using the Linn app. Switching to/from roon is now seamless, and the playlists in each control app remain preserved unless there is a power down or reset.

I also use the onboard phono-stage in the Selekt for occasional listening to favourite vinyl albums, and it works well to the level of my Rega P6 with Ania Pro, yet I do observe that a TT upgrade may be next.

Ultimately this choice comes down to one’s own ‘value proposition’ of comparing the considerably higher cost of the Selekt with Organik vs the Atom HE - or buy both as I did when a great deal came up on the HE !

Good quality power, interconnect and speaker cables have made a big difference in this system, but those can be added incrementally.

PS. When you do audition the Selekt I recommend you make sure it is set up with Linn’s “Space Optimisation” for the listening room and speakers.