That reminds me of something else: how will EVs be catered for in streets with no off-road parking, and maybe no certainty of parking even close to your house let alone directly outside? That needs to be solved to catch the millions of people who live in such housing in Britain at least.
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I changed my “station car” about 3 years ago and really wanted to buy electric as I do 5-6k miles a year in this car. I drove the i3 and frankly found it dangerous with its skinny rock hard tyres. I was not going crazy but some corners felt very on the edge in it. Then the cost. I ended up buying a fiat 500 at nearly a third of the price of the i3 that has really low running costs as mpg is great. I do get electric and as I say I really wanted to get onboard with it but as others have said it still feels very early days and hydrogen might be the another alternative, plus who knows what else might come along.
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The big issue with electric cars is the charging side. Going for longer and longer range doesn’t resolve the issue of how to get the joules into the battery pack. If we all have easy access to a super fast charging point okay but the majority of us do not and probably never will! People in houses with zero front garden or where you would have to trail a power lead across a path; or, for example, people in flats. It simply doesn’t work. Going for a system where H2 is the fuel for the electricity (rather than a charging point) is the only, realistic, way to go. I’m reading more and more how the government and industry are working towards H2 as the future solution for electric vehicles and even domestic heating. It’s getting there…
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We had a Vauxhall Ampera for two or three years, it was stuffed full of technology (30GB hard disk music storage for example). It had a range of 30-40 miles before the engine cut in; since we had a charging point put in we hardly every used it. I quite enjoyed driving the Ampera, it was quite low slung and with the weight of the batteries in the middle of the car stuck to the road nicely.
We replaced it with a Nissan Leaf ‘Tekna’ (2017 model). This has a range of around 100 miles. It feels fine to drive, not as nice as the Ampera in terms of road holding but it is a little higher. Very comfortable with plenty of ‘toys’ like a heated steering wheel etc. Again for our use pattern it’s fine (it’s the main car but we only really do short journeys at the moment with an old Subaru estate for longer journeys).
I’m pretty convinced by the electric car experience for my use cases- but it does mean I’m happy to have a couple of vehicles since it wouldn’t quite work as a sole vehicle. As others have said once there is a towing version, hopefully an estate version as well, I’d be tempted to go to being a single car household (and several motorcycles…)
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Thanks @StephenPacker very interesting. The use I was looking for was to drive it 25 minutes to the train station, commute by train to work and leave car at the station all day and then pick it up on the way home. A small car (as I would only be the only person in it) would be ideal, hence looking at the i3. The roadholding was just something I noticed on the test drive and not the main reason for not buying one it was the 3 fold cost compared to ICE comparable. As it was going to be left in a car park all day I am sure it would get parking knocks etc and it would not be my main car I just could not bring myself to pay that kind of premium for an electric car especially when it drove horribly as well.
I looked at the i3 but really didn’t like the cabin and with the price premium over the Nissan I didn’t even consider it when changing the Ampera.
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There are literally dozens of new EV models coming on the market in the next two years so the choice will be much greater. At the same time range is improving and costs are coming down. I read today that battery costs have fallen nearly 18% per annum since 2010 - from $780 kWh to $110 kWh. That’s technological innovation for you!
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For passenger cars the momentum across the world is firmly with battery EVs at the moment. I think the consensus is that this dominance will last for several years. Hydrogen is lagging way behind with global sales of just a few thousand cars per year. It may well catch on, especially in the heavy vehicle sector, but not for a while.
I’m not sure it would be ideal for three weeks away…
We’re awaiting delivery of a Volvo XC40 full electric with a factory fit retractable tow bar. Ive no idea the tow capacity yet as spec info availability is simply appalling but as my intention is more bike carrier then for me it will be fine. The interesting point of course it is designed to tow… something
I’m not sure why you did not find a small electric car just to take you to the Station and back. The I3 is a premium electric car, there are plenty of others to demo, much cheaper and better mileage.
Just watch Teslabjorn’s exploits on YT to see how extensive the Norwegian charging infrastructure is! As well as how well EVs cope in the cold, or at least how non terrible they are, and how overnighting in minus lots is doable without too much battery drain.
I think fear of the unknown is a lot to do with slow EV uptake. Buying a new or used EV is a massive financial commitment for most ppl so it’ll take time to overcome the reluctance.
Yes, range is a concern, if you can charge at home though you basically have a petrol/diesel pump at your disposal. If I could leave the house with a full tank every time I think I’d hardly ever need to go to a fuel station. If you cannot charge at home then the proliferation of non traditional ‘fuelling’ points will help. It’s easier to put a charging point in lots more places than a fuel pump, so we’ll get used to topping up in much more diverse locations.
I think the biggest change that has to happen is sorting the payment system out. Having to have multiple subscriptions for different charging networks is a pain, and I think that needs a regulator to force the companies to open up.
I don’t run an EV, but pretty certain our next purchase will be one, the MG 5 looks incredible value for a new EV, I’d definitely think about a well used Tesla, and the Hyundai’s look pretty good too.
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@JOF yes, you are totally correct there are/was plenty of electric cars to do the job. I am not saying ICE is better than electric, I REALLY wanted to get an electric car but at that time (3 1/2 years ago) the price difference for anything resembling the same level of spec was crazy. As has been pointed out above more and more cars are coming onto the market and the quality/range etc is getting better all the time. When I bought my car (Abarth 595, koni shocks, brembo brakes, carbon seats/dash) the best electric car I could find was the i3 in anything close to a similar spec etc and as I said was 3 times the price. Yes I could of bought a leaf (even then the leaf was more expensive than the car I ended up buying) but in my view the leaf was a lower level of car and not a fair comparison. For those who like an analogy, for me it was like comparing a 282/250 to a 202/200 but the 202/200 as more expensive.
I am in no way trying to start a spat on electric vs ICE, as I say I want electric to go on to bigger and better things, I can only go by my findings when I was in the market for a car. In the time scale of the modern electric car, 3 1/2 years ago is an eternity and I am sure if I did the same comparison today things would be a lot closer and no doubt the gap will continue to close.
My 25 minute drive to the station is on 60 mph speed limit roads which are mainly in the country so twisty. Even at 40-45 in the Abarth they can be fun. In the i3 as I say with the skinny hard tyres it was hard work. In the Abarth I arrived at the destination with a bit of a smile on my face but in the i3 I arrived a bit tired and about 10 minutes later and when you are up at 5am that extra 10 minutes in bed can make a lot of difference !
Again I dont want to start a what is best debate, I am only stating my opinion of what I found over 3 years ago. I have been a passenger in an i8 and I thought that was a great adaptation of what an electric car can be, and also driven a Tesla SUV which on anything less than perfectly flat tarmac had suspension that banged and crashed and I just found hard work to drive. Not everybody wants a sports car, I get that, but for me the i8 is everything that an electric car could be. Shame it cost 6 figures and prob why BMW have stopped producing it.
Looking on the auto express website the VW e-up is 20,555, the Zoe 26,495 and the leaf 29,790. The Abarth 17,310 (GBP prices) so although prices have come down on electric, there is still a decent premium over ICE.
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I picked up my Tesla M3 in December. Its great: fast, quiet, comfortable and economical. I hear some people say they don’t handle very well, but I haven’t reached the same conclusion, I think they handle fine for a fast road car - pushing any road car to its limit everywhere would become a bit irresponsible. However I have not tried it on any longer runs due to lockdown - but I will as soon as lockdown lifts. I need to go pick up a Nac52/supercap (yay), and visit my parents whom live about 250 miles away.
Im leasing mine on salary sacrifice scheme, which is very tax efficient for me. I did not want to invest permanently in the technology as its moving so fast. So for me, a monthly lease helps offset the risk of better technology coming along in the next few years and causing it to depreciate massively. I think in three years when the least expires, there will be a lot more interesting alternatives. Also given my personal circumstances the lease is incredibly cheap for what I am getting.
We have had a 7kw charger fitted at home and the tesla is plugged in overnight. I think this will do fine if I ever start to commute back to work for 2 or 3 days a week. I am also planing to fit solar to my roof, which may allow me to charge the car using sunshine on the days when I am working at home.
We have little faith in the public charging network and this swung us to using Tesla. Im hoping that the public networks will improve over the next few years to allow us to consider alternative cars.
Driving an electric car its a different experience. There is not as much feedback from the car over its speed or handling. i.e. you don’t have gears or sounds from the engine to help gauge speed nor does my model three roll much on corners so there is less feedback on grip. I found it harder to guess the speed as I would normally do in an ICE car. Plus the steering is a little numb.
Quality is a “subjective” step down from other cars for some people (not for me), but the delivery issues with mine are being addressed appropriately by Tesla. So I don’t currently have any complaints. I like to think of it being similar in performance to something like a BMW M3, which are not exactly known for their cheap running costs or a lotus which isn’t exactly well made - a sort of esoteric American sports saloon. In that spirit they are great.
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Yes, it is all about confidence. If a car is easy to drive you can step out feeling fresh as a daisy but something that does not and feels like it is going to throw you into a ditch at the first opportunity means you get out tired and not really enjoying the experience… I have had a few old air cooled 911’s …
Have to agree. Quite sure footed and easy to drive, and very fast if required, although to be fair that is not the way it gets driven really. The tyres are thin but it grips OK wet and dry. Seats are poor in my view and it is a bit bouncy at times but I have driven far more uncomfortable and less well controlled vehicles. These include a performance version Fiat 500 that my local Lotus dealer used as a courtesy car. Possibly the most dangerous and uncomfortable car I have ever driven, and I have had a Caterham 7!
We all have our own preferences
First of all I am NOT trying to beat upon electric cars, I think they are great and have their place. I was merely giving my views of cars I have driven and what I found when I was looking to replace a car.
I have prob spent 2 days in an i3 (combination of test drive and a friends car) and for me I just find that they want to understeer off the road with those skinny/hard tyres. Again I dont want to get into a spat about it, that is just how I have found them to drive. Maybe I have been unlucky in the ones I have been behind the wheel of.
As @BruceW has just posted we all have our own preferences. I was simply stating my findings, nothing more.
How dull if we all liked the same things.
The worst handling car I ever drove was an Alfa Mito Cloverleaf on a test drive. Genuinely terrible. I honestly thought it would put me in the hedge without any real provocation. The dealer sighed when I handed him the keys back and could not disagree. Needless to say I did not buy it.
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The government is putting a lot of research and emphasis into H2 as the future using the natural gas network as the transport infrastructure.
Anyone thinking of buying an electric car should watch a YouTube video on a channel called Love Cars (it’s Tiff Neddle’s new car show), anyway there’s a video on there about the difficulty of charging electric cars in the uk away from the home. They were trying to film a show about the new Ford eMustang and needed to charge it ahead of filming. Take a look it’s painful.
The only car I would consider in the UK is a Tesla as they have a good network of chargers, however the poor build quality of car costing upward of £45k is in my eye unacceptable and in recent years they have overtaken Range Rover as the least reliable car brand.
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