Epos ES14 Anyone?

Not Epos 14 but just bought some lovely Epos 11s to use with a Nait50.

Just hooked them up to my main system. They sound pretty fine especially on acoustic stuff. Very impressed.

12 Likes

@longplayer

It was a pleasure to see your newly refurbished ES14’s in Systems Pics.

Please do share an account of the refurb’ work.
Particularly interested in details on capacitors.
But, it’s all interesting…

Best wishes
R

I’ve changed the capacitor in my ES14 many moons ago.
One on each tweeter.
Big lift and very simple job, even I could find out.
Can’t remember specs but somebody knew the tech things to make the correct order.

1 Like

Great when you hit upon something that just works so well there’s never any need to change it. Are the mid-bass rubber outer surrounds still well attached to the cones and baskets ? They started to come away on mine but it was a simple enough job to repair at the time.

1 Like

I’ve noticed some hairline cracks appearing on the rubber surround of one of my ES14s - interestingly the one that gets the most light. It doesn’t seem to have affected performance as yet, but we shall see…

1 Like

As promised from the System Pics thread here is a summary of the refurb work.

This was done by Andrew at Anapeach. I contacted him after seeing a post here on the forum by someone who had a pair of Linn Kans refurbished. Andrew is very meticulous and before doing any work, carries out a full analysis, makes recommendations and then is up to you how much or how little refurbishment is carried out.

I’ve owned my Epos ES 14’s from new since December 1989 (still have the bill of sale from Doug Brady Warrington). I believe they were designed using Naim amplification and the user manual (a page or two of typewritten notes!) even recommends NAC A4 cables (presumably before NAC A5 was introduced). I use NAC A5 with them.

I had dented a tweeter diaphragm whilst taking them apart to see how the capacitor was fitted with the original thought of maybe fitting new ones. Clearly I can’t be trusted with something as fragile :roll_eyes:and I had thought they were done for (although they still sounded ok’ish tbh). After a chance read of a post from @ratrat which had information that NOS diaphragms were available, I managed to secure a pair and then discussed with Andrew refurbishment options.

After inspecting the speakers he made quite a few suggestions and it was pretty interesting to see the existing condition. The good news was that the drivers were all in good condition although there had been ferro fluid leakage on the undamaged tweeter.

The measurements showed quite a good match

Tweeter Test Results (Originals)
Speaker A = 10.8uH 5.9 Ohms @ 200KHz
Speaker B = 11.6uH 5.9 Ohms @ 200KHz

Mid/Bass Test Results
Speaker A = 111.6uH 6.9 Ohms @ 15KHz
Speaker B = 107.9uH 7.3 Ohms @ 15KHz

However the capacitors were drifting upwards from the original spec of 2.2uF
Speaker A = 2.56uF
Speaker B = 2.68uF

Not bad for 35 years but probably the time to fit new ones.

The driver gaskets were now flat and no longer sealing and the bass ports had worked a bit loose. Cosmetically there was no work needed (I have looked after them) so with the addition of three core woven cables and new terminals the extent of work wasn’t too dramatic. According to Andrew the main advantage to woven cables is that they reduce the effect of radio frequency interference which makes the separation between instruments/voices more defined. The gains compared to the original Epos cables were expected to only be slight though.

New exact matched Solen capacitors were fitted and secured to the rear cabinet (they are larger than the little blue coloured (Bennic?) ones fitted originally which were secured by plastic ties onto the rear of the tweeter so the Solens had to be re-located.

So in total, new ferro fluid, diaphragms, gaskets, wiring, terminals and capacitors fitted.

The rebuilt tweeters were now measuring exactly the same:

Speaker A = 15.1uH 4.6 Ohms @ 200KHz
Speaker B = 15.1uH 4.6 Ohms @ 200KHz

They sound great again back home and I’m hoping they will last me another 35 years (probably longer than I’ll last!)

Hopefully this will be of some interest or help to anyone else contemplating a refurb.

13 Likes

@longplayer

Thank you so much for sharing all those fine details. That’s seriously impressive.

Great that you found a skilled technician to trust with such work too. I’ve read others here - in this forum - trust the same person with speaker work previously. It’s brilliant we have these artisan skills, which probably takes forever to develop, from hands on experiences.

With this new information, now I’m seriously thinking about all this.

To explain…
I have two sets of Epos ES14’s. Several years ago, bought a second pair, not working, but for spares.

In the meantime, also collected a few NOS spares along the way too. All with intention of ensuring the first best pair can be kept going into the future. But, your project is making me think. Maybe to investigate getting the second pair working again.

Thanks so much for sharing. For my part, I’m really grateful. Other’s may benefit from your notes too.

It’s one of the joys of this forum that experiences can be shared for mutual benefit.

Wishing you lots of happy listening.

Best wishes
R

2 Likes

Thanks for the comments. Yes we are lucky to have access to skilled and obviously passionate specialists. This forum is so valuable in helping to track those people down based on other members shared experiences.

I have also harboured thoughts of buying a spare pair for spares so I can see where you’re coming from. Nevertheless, I think the idea of getting a second pair up and running might be an even better idea as it certainly seems feasible as long as the drivers are ok.

And once again many thanks for pointing me in the direction of the diaphragms.

1 Like

Happy Sunday

Just read your notes, (again). Maybe the tenth time. Thanks again.

It seems quite a lot (of small things) was changed.

  • Replacement tweeter diaphragms
  • Capacitors (cross over )
  • Internal wiring
  • Speaker cable terminals, banana plugs
  • Gasket seals, (for mid / bass driver )

Do you think the refurbishment work affected the speakers, in a positive way ?
Have you noticed any changes to the sound quality? (Although this is always tricky, when an item goes away for while. So comparison become challenging).

Also, curious about ferro fluid, can you say more about this?

Hope you’re enjoying relaxed listening today.
Just listening to Go Go Penguins, “Everything Is Going to Be OK” (2023).

Best wishes
R

1 Like

Hi & nice to hear back from you.

I decided to give them some time to settle in (and the the amps etc, to get warm) before making any judgements but the improvement was obvious immediately to be honest.

Most of the refurbishment dealt with things that had deteriorated (gaskets, loss of ferro fluid). It wasn’t really necessary to change the wiring or terminals (terminals needed a good clean up anyway so no harm in changing them). I did think hard about going ahead with the extra changes (wire and terminals) in case they changed the character in any way, i.e. not wanting to change too much from original. In the end as the capacitor was being changed, I figured these would be more minor in impact. Andrew did say that the new wiring would only be a small improvement over the original. Nothing wrong with a small improvement though.

My impression is that this work has restored them to their original performance when new; at least to how I recall they sounded. The mid-range in particular seems more detailed - just as I remembered the character of the speaker.

I guess that the performance might have drifted away slightly over time but slowly and in such a small way that I hadn’t noticed. It is a testament to their quality that they measured so well after a 35 year lifetime.

So yes, this has been a positive thing to do. I would say possibly the best value for money spend I have made on hi-fi.

The ferro fluid leak is the brown spots you can see on the tweeter dome in the pics that I posted originally (I always wondered what those spots were!). It was only on one tweeter. The fluid was replaced in both tweeters with new, clean, fluid in the channel you can see from the photo below.

The ferrofluid cools tweeter drivers as far as I understand. There are quite a few articles on the web and a video from one fluid manufacturer showing fluid being installed in a driver.

At the start of this I was quite nervous about having anything done to the speakers as I didn’t want to risk changing their sound. However, the imperative of having to replace the tweeter diaphragm ended up highlighting that with time, some things will deteriorate and fitting new items makes sense. Andrew’s approach is to inspect and then report on what he finds before agreeing with you what should be done before any work is carried out. So, this seemed to me to carry minimal risk of perhaps ‘going too far’.

With the age of these speakers it is not going to be possible to source the same products used in the original (e.g. the capacitor) so they will never be ‘identical’ to the originals but I don’t think any changes made had any impact on the character but they have brought them back to full potential.

I’m really glad I had this done. One good thing to find out from having them inspected was that the drivers are in great shape so that has given me a great deal of peace of mind too.

Sitting this afternoon listening to ‘Cuts across the Land’ by the Duke Spirit but realising that it is no CD to use to demo a hi-fi - it is hideously mastered. So I put ‘Time Passages’ by Al Stewart on instead - a properly mastered CD which is sounding excellent.

best wishes and enjoy the rest of Sunday

6 Likes

Processing all these details…
Thank you for providing such a comprehensive account. :+1:

I have felt the same way ever since my Royds came back restored, it’s just so rewarding.

@ratrat I notice you hesitate but I’d say this is really a good thing to have done if you can!

Dear friend @daddycool
Thanks for the encouragement.
Not so much hesitation. Maybe more careful consideration.
Yes, I’m seriously thinking about another project here.

And a new forum friend @longplayer is being so so helpful, with all the details, from his similar project.

R

2 Likes

Finally committed to something else.
After much fuss and searching around, allowed another pair of speakers into the house.

(Although, the old contenders aren’t going anywhere )

The old and the new. (Some 35-40 yrs between the two designs)

  • Epos ES14, c/w Epos stands
  • PMC Twenty5 23i, ( c/w Twenty5 active upgrade module )

I’m sure Mr Marshall would be satisfied with his fellow ex BBC colleague Mr Thomas’ efforts.

8 Likes

Hi RR, having been a long time EPOS user I would be interested in your journey & decision on settling on the PMC’s. Great conversation on the 14’s in this thread - absolutely support the decision to hang on to the 14’s though!

All in this recent thread…

Ah, thanks, I should have remembered, I was following the thread - what started you on the hunt? & how would you compare the 14s & the PMCs?

Hi @PaulM

Can’t really say our love for Epos ES14’s is diminished at all. They are much loved here in our house and will continue to be used.

Searching for a second pair of speakers is actually really challenging, when the ones you already have are so good.

Some years ago, made a decision to split our HiFi pieces and pursue two systems in our house.

One was to be Vinyl source first and to be based around our existing LP12 and Epos ES14 speakers, both bought new from Sound Advice Loughborough, in the late 80’s.

It seemed obvious ( to us, me and my best mate and wife ) to add Naim Olive shoe boxes, in between . So “Project Olive” unfolded - go take a look - a story about finding and refurbishing a classic Naim Olive combination - NAC72 - HC - NAP140.

The Epos ES14’s will continue to be used - in a system many would consider to their spiritual home, with source LP12 and Naim Olive shoe boxes.

At the same time, decided to build a second system around an existing CD5 XS - nDAC - NAIT XS 2. A pair of speakers was needed for this digital source system.

Over time, the amplifier was upgraded from XS 2 to SN3 to NAC282. (The recent decision to “go active” prompted a separate decision to swop a SN3 for a better pre-amp only). Also, added a ND5 XS2 streamer to the nDAC, digital sources.

Best answer to this is attempted here…

A second point - maybe to bear in mind - the PMC 23i’s are an active speaker, which have their own unique characteristics too.

So, I think of all this as more an evolution, than a simple replacement.

The Epos ES14’s are ideally placed in a Vinyl first and nicely balanced system.

The PMC 23is are also ideally placed within a second nicely balanced system, with digital sources first.

Having said that, I would say ES14’s are a versatile and capable speaker that would challenge a lot of current speakers up to maybe £3-4k. If you’re happy to fiddle around with speaker placement, ( rear ported speaker design prefer to be away from rear boundaries), they are a brilliant product , even compared to today’s maybe more modern designs. The simplicity of their design maybe being the key. Well done Mr Marshall.

Hope that all helps a fellow ES14 user ?

BW
R

1 Like

Would have to agree - best money ever spent on hi-fi, and they are the components all my pals always ask about.

1 Like

Brilliant, thanks for a great explanation of the history & your search/decision. As you say, the 14s are very special and take a lot of beating, even in these days. I did a bit of checking of alternate speakers a few years back (a bit of an itch & curiosity) but wasn’t totally convinced with what I found so the itch remained unscratched - even if I found something better I would be very loathed to move on my 14s. I am glad that you are happy with the PMCs and wish you terrific listening on both set ups - 72/140 still takes some beating.

1 Like