Just read your notes, (again). Maybe the tenth time. Thanks again.
It seems quite a lot (of small things) was changed.
Replacement tweeter diaphragms
Capacitors (cross over )
Internal wiring
Speaker cable terminals, banana plugs
Gasket seals, (for mid / bass driver )
Do you think the refurbishment work affected the speakers, in a positive way ?
Have you noticed any changes to the sound quality? (Although this is always tricky, when an item goes away for while. So comparison become challenging).
Also, curious about ferro fluid, can you say more about this?
Hope you’re enjoying relaxed listening today.
Just listening to Go Go Penguins, “Everything Is Going to Be OK” (2023).
I decided to give them some time to settle in (and the the amps etc, to get warm) before making any judgements but the improvement was obvious immediately to be honest.
Most of the refurbishment dealt with things that had deteriorated (gaskets, loss of ferro fluid). It wasn’t really necessary to change the wiring or terminals (terminals needed a good clean up anyway so no harm in changing them). I did think hard about going ahead with the extra changes (wire and terminals) in case they changed the character in any way, i.e. not wanting to change too much from original. In the end as the capacitor was being changed, I figured these would be more minor in impact. Andrew did say that the new wiring would only be a small improvement over the original. Nothing wrong with a small improvement though.
My impression is that this work has restored them to their original performance when new; at least to how I recall they sounded. The mid-range in particular seems more detailed - just as I remembered the character of the speaker.
I guess that the performance might have drifted away slightly over time but slowly and in such a small way that I hadn’t noticed. It is a testament to their quality that they measured so well after a 35 year lifetime.
So yes, this has been a positive thing to do. I would say possibly the best value for money spend I have made on hi-fi.
The ferro fluid leak is the brown spots you can see on the tweeter dome in the pics that I posted originally (I always wondered what those spots were!). It was only on one tweeter. The fluid was replaced in both tweeters with new, clean, fluid in the channel you can see from the photo below.
The ferrofluid cools tweeter drivers as far as I understand. There are quite a few articles on the web and a video from one fluid manufacturer showing fluid being installed in a driver.
At the start of this I was quite nervous about having anything done to the speakers as I didn’t want to risk changing their sound. However, the imperative of having to replace the tweeter diaphragm ended up highlighting that with time, some things will deteriorate and fitting new items makes sense. Andrew’s approach is to inspect and then report on what he finds before agreeing with you what should be done before any work is carried out. So, this seemed to me to carry minimal risk of perhaps ‘going too far’.
With the age of these speakers it is not going to be possible to source the same products used in the original (e.g. the capacitor) so they will never be ‘identical’ to the originals but I don’t think any changes made had any impact on the character but they have brought them back to full potential.
I’m really glad I had this done. One good thing to find out from having them inspected was that the drivers are in great shape so that has given me a great deal of peace of mind too.
Sitting this afternoon listening to ‘Cuts across the Land’ by the Duke Spirit but realising that it is no CD to use to demo a hi-fi - it is hideously mastered. So I put ‘Time Passages’ by Al Stewart on instead - a properly mastered CD which is sounding excellent.
Dear friend @daddycool
Thanks for the encouragement.
Not so much hesitation. Maybe more careful consideration.
Yes, I’m seriously thinking about another project here.
And a new forum friend @longplayer is being so so helpful, with all the details, from his similar project.
Hi RR, having been a long time EPOS user I would be interested in your journey & decision on settling on the PMC’s. Great conversation on the 14’s in this thread - absolutely support the decision to hang on to the 14’s though!
Can’t really say our love for Epos ES14’s is diminished at all. They are much loved here in our house and will continue to be used.
Searching for a second pair of speakers is actually really challenging, when the ones you already have are so good.
Some years ago, made a decision to split our HiFi pieces and pursue two systems in our house.
One was to be Vinyl source first and to be based around our existing LP12 and Epos ES14 speakers, both bought new from Sound Advice Loughborough, in the late 80’s.
It seemed obvious ( to us, me and my best mate and wife ) to add Naim Olive shoe boxes, in between . So “Project Olive” unfolded - go take a look - a story about finding and refurbishing a classic Naim Olive combination - NAC72 - HC - NAP140.
The Epos ES14’s will continue to be used - in a system many would consider to their spiritual home, with source LP12 and Naim Olive shoe boxes.
At the same time, decided to build a second system around an existing CD5 XS - nDAC - NAIT XS 2. A pair of speakers was needed for this digital source system.
Over time, the amplifier was upgraded from XS 2 to SN3 to NAC282. (The recent decision to “go active” prompted a separate decision to swop a SN3 for a better pre-amp only). Also, added a ND5 XS2 streamer to the nDAC, digital sources.
Best answer to this is attempted here…
A second point - maybe to bear in mind - the PMC 23i’s are an active speaker, which have their own unique characteristics too.
So, I think of all this as more an evolution, than a simple replacement.
The Epos ES14’s are ideally placed in a Vinyl first and nicely balanced system.
The PMC 23is are also ideally placed within a second nicely balanced system, with digital sources first.
Having said that, I would say ES14’s are a versatile and capable speaker that would challenge a lot of current speakers up to maybe £3-4k. If you’re happy to fiddle around with speaker placement, ( rear ported speaker design prefer to be away from rear boundaries), they are a brilliant product , even compared to today’s maybe more modern designs. The simplicity of their design maybe being the key. Well done Mr Marshall.
Brilliant, thanks for a great explanation of the history & your search/decision. As you say, the 14s are very special and take a lot of beating, even in these days. I did a bit of checking of alternate speakers a few years back (a bit of an itch & curiosity) but wasn’t totally convinced with what I found so the itch remained unscratched - even if I found something better I would be very loathed to move on my 14s. I am glad that you are happy with the PMCs and wish you terrific listening on both set ups - 72/140 still takes some beating.