Ethernet Switch and Cables Mania

[Peder]

And don’t be hasty about making judgments when auditioning it after a power down to move, though. Even if still warm it takes a while to get completely back on song. Immediately afterwards it is more layered and detailed, but also coarser and more in your face, with textures suffering. This then gradually calms down, fleshes out and matures.

This above definitely applies also,.when testing and switching powercables in its switch.

At least in one Cisco or dual-Cisco solutions. Otherwise too,.but now we’re just talking about Switches here.

/Peder🙂

[Darkebear]

I prefer 1m fas a minimum, mainly for easy of connection and lack of stress on the cable. Otherwise, I believe the shorter the better, but I’ve never done any comparisons.

There are differences - on average from all my tests with lots of different cables there seems to be a sweet-spot somewhere in the 1m to 1.5m range. The rest is then down to tuning to what your system needs, given I generally find shorter cables have a faster leaner sound and longer ones a fuller warmer sound - nothing ‘wrong’ in either emphasis but I find it is there.

I’ve gone down to 0.5m links and they work well but are more ‘immediate’ faster sounding and can be lack access to tone colors - whereas beyond 2m and you get into a different sound and you need to choose the right good cable for very long runs - I don’t mean necessarily ‘audiophile’ cable but do not presume type does not matter - a good Cat5e/Cat6 or with care Cat7 can do a long run - best to try first these longer runs by laying then in before fitting into walls or floors.

So in general short I find faster as not as easy with the low-level fine details - and longer gets a fuller easier sound but can lose immediacy and become too relaxed.
Once you try a few different lengths of a given kind then you get in your mind what it does and can then choose as fits your system and what you are wanting.

All the above is of coarse ‘impossible’ and ‘makes no difference’ as I also know from a very specific consideration of Ethernet standards - but try it and you find it matters and my contribution is in context of this thread!

Also I find the difference between the cables is often dwarfed by dressing them for the shorter cables where you can do this as an option. Annoying actually for me here but what I find.

DB.

[Innocent_Bystander]

I’ve seen you make negative statements in the past about the method,.it seems very strange because you can’t use the method.

I don’t believe I have made a single negative startement about Tune-Dem, though I have expressed the questioning in my mind as to how it can be the sole way of deciding - a tool, maybe, possibly a very useful one, but not universally applicable to everything and evrybody. Expressing uncertainty as to its suitability is questioning it, not being negative about it. On one occasion by way of example I said: “music is not about following the tune, but about absorbing the whole content of the music - at least it is to me. I would not enjoy music as much if the tune was absolutely spot on, absolutely as clear as it could possibly be, but other parts of the music missing, for example no low bass when the music has low bass, or having exaggerated midrange, or whatever.”

[Filipe]

So in general short I find faster as not as easy with the low-level fine details - and longer gets a fuller easier sound but can lose immediacy and become too relaxed.

I just use nDAC with an Innuos Zenith via an exceptionally good usb to spdif converter. The Zenith can be disconnected from the network once music is playing with no need for app intervention. In general now I have 5-6m cat5e Ethernet cable disconnection makes no difference and I keep the Cisco 2960 7TC 4m plus away from the HiFi.

My SPDIF box gives timing accuracy (jitter) in the picosecond range. It is battery powered. The Zenith has triple LPSs to cut down on passing noise over the usb.

I found a 1m AQ Forrest awful! That was nearly a year ago when I started demo Innuos boxes. Probably similar observations to yours above.

I’d love to be able to compare my system with a tweaked ND555.

Phil

[Beachcomber]

because you can not perform

you must learn by practically practicing on,.together with someone who is already knowledgeable on the method.

Sounds rather like a cult thing - something to which you become initiated by the Master who knows everything, but it willing to teach the unworthy.

[Peder]

Peder:

you must learn by practically practicing on,.together with someone who is already knowledgeable on the method.

Sounds rather like a cult thing - something to which you become initiated by the Master who knows everything, but it willing to teach the unworthy

You’ll have to raise that question with Linn,.who has invented and created the method.

But according to Fredrik Lejonklou (Lejonklou HiFi,.he also describes the method on his forum),.so in all the decades that he has been active in the hifi-industry…
So has only two,.as he knows of,have managed to learn the method by Reading how to perform the method.

• Throughout the 1980s and 1990s in Sweden,.all “flat-earth”-retailers taught the method to their customers.
We customers shared experiences with each other through our retailers,.and at different customer-events.
We became like a very big ‘folk-movement’,.and at the top sat a very well-liked distributor with close cooperation with Ivor.

How it works these days,.I’m more unsure of.
But it is important,.that the retailers take responsibility to spread the knowledge,of how to install a music-system.
But that knowledge of this varies,.yes,you just need to look in the System Pic’s-thread to understand this.

/Peder🙂

[Innocent_Bystander]

But it is important,.that the retailers take responsibility to spread the knowledge,of how to install a music-system.

I have also told you that this you must learn by practically practicing on,.together with someone who is already knowledgeable on the method.

Not easy for people who don’t have a dealer within realistic travelling distance, So when I do have time to compare a couple of things I have been meaning to for a while, That i would like to use as an opportunity to try Tune-Dem, I will have to do it only by reading…

[Innocent_Bystander]

Out of interest, do UK Naim dealers use Tune-Dem to set up systems?

And do many UK-based contributors to this thread use it to compare components, and if so is that major system items, minor system items, tweaks or positioning?

[Mike_S]

I am a bit surprised with Naim’s lack of advice on streaming cables and switches. Given that it is part of the source chain, I’d thought they would give it as much attention as a interconnect. They could well have a range of Naim streaming cables to connect to a Naim streamer. Switches are probably evolving to fast though?

[Peder]

Not easy for people who don’t have a dealer within realistic travelling distance,

Innocent_Bystander,…Well I know,.unfortunately it’s other times now.

Recruitment for this hobby is bad,.and of course it affects the retailer’s ability to contribute with this knowledge.
But you in the UK,.have always had far more retailers than us in Sweden.
• But I think the responsibility for this should start on the mother-ship (read Naim,Linn),.that there are specific demands on this to the retailers.

This was the case for us in Sweden,.the distributor had very tough demands on its retailers regarding installation,and to teach installation.
This turned out to be a success-story,.because when the customers’ systems sounded amazing. Yes,.then their friends also bought new music-systems,it became a win-win situation.

/Peder🙂

[Mike-B]

Very few hifi brands offer much advice on ethernet & related, LinnDocs have something on it but only about how to design the LAN & a little on recommendations over which Cat standard.
None offer ethernet as after sales cable upgrade options such as they do with IC’s.
That might be indicative

[Peder]

None offer ethernet as after sales cable upgrade options such as they do with IC’s.
That might be indicative

But I think that’s going to change.!!!
We had a listening-night last night.

Experienced listeners,.I didn’t say what I was doing (I changed the direction of the ehternet/streaming-cable).
All seven heard the difference between the direction,.the cable was an Audioquest Diamond ethernet/streaming-cable.

/Peder🙂

[Innocent_Bystander]

But you in the UK,

Just for clarification, i) I am in a remote area of the British Isles with no local hifi dealers of any description, and it would take even the nearest dealer a whole day just to visit for a couple of hours and an overnight stay for longer, with a ferry or flight cost on top. And ii) of my system main components all but my DAC (and the midrange & tweeter upgrade drive units) I bought secondhand from private sellers, so only that DAC supplier might be considered my dealer, and that was from one of the further reaches of the UK from me.

[Peder]

I am in a remote area of the British Isles with no local hifi dealers of any description,

Since I live in northern Sweden,.I can understand the problem.

Now we have a Naim/Linn-retailer just 40 km away.
But there was a time when we took our LP12’s to Stockholm (1000 km,one way),.this when our dear LP12’s needed service.

/Peder🙂

[Mike_S]

I think there is a gap though, particularly with the Uniti Core and how that should be connected to a streamer - just as is done with a CD player, which in the Naim range, the Core has replaced.

[Mike-B]

But I think that’s going to change.!!!
We had a listening-night last night.

Experienced listeners,. (I changed the direction of the ehternet/streaming-cable).
All seven heard the difference between the direction,.

That does not mean much other than on that specific system
As a number of people on this forum cable have said, there are different effects on cables with different end points (equipment) (or visa versa) Naim have shown this with the latest players, the cable changes are less pronounced with the new players compared to the older ones. Myself & some friends found a cables ‘characteristic’ is not constant across different players & brands & we’ve run the same tests numbers of times & added switch variables.
IMO unless the client endpoints & any relevant software detail is stated in the test & it remains as a constant, these cable ‘comparisons’ are not proving much. They might be interesting if the reader is so inclined, but they prove nothing.

[Mike-B]

Yes I agree more could be done, in fact I would say more needs to be done.
Problem is whilst CDP to Amp incl via a DAC is a simple path, the complexities of LAN schematics in some homes can be far more intricate. But Linn do a pretty good job with their LinnDoc schematics

[Peder]

Naim have shown this with the latest players, the cable changes are less pronounced with the new players compared to the older ones,

It’s getting late,.it’s a day tomorrow too,so I’ll have to come back with an answer.

But short,.given what you write above,you may not have read about @Darkebear 's detailed description of his “journey” in this thread.
He has ND555 with dual-PS.
And others,.with similar streamers like Darkebear have exactly the same experience.

This has been written about many times now in the thread.
The rest I’ll answer tomorrow.

/Peder🙂

[Mike-B]

It’s getting late,.it’s a day tomorrow too,so I’ll have to come back with an answer.

There is no need, my opinion is my opinion & does not need an answer.
You do not need to “answer” each & every post.

I’ve read DB’s posts along with other people’s posts, interesting conclusions, as are some of the other posts, some more so than others.
As i’ve said in previous posts, a number of people on this forum have noticed different cables with different end points (equipment) produce different perceived changes. Naim have shown this with the latest players, the cable changes are less pronounced with the new players compared to the older ones.
I have noted together with others during experiments with our own home systems that a cables ‘characteristic’ is not constant across different players & brands - Naim, Linn, Cyrus, Audiolab - & we’ve run the same tests numbers of times & added switch variables, & this started a long while ago, maybe 3 or 4 years.
My only key point from yesterday’s post is that unless the client endpoints & any relevant software detail is stated in the test & these remain as a constant, these cable ‘comparisons’ are not proving much. They might be interesting if the reader is so inclined, but they prove nothing.

[Richieroo]

Well thats not my experience … the cable changes I have made are very apparent - the ND555 in the 500 system is very revealing … and its not subtle … Don’t get me wrong … I wish bits were bits but they are most certainly not…I cannot pretend to know whats going on … my findings mirror DB … My original view was a good gigabit switch (aka Netgear GS105 or similar) and some cat 6 or 7 cable and the jobs a good one. It was not until I purchased some new cable plugged it in thought …WTF…whats broken…this led to some experimentation … and ultimately a very satisfying result.