Exactly,..
/Pederš
Exactly,..
/Pederš
While that is true, it is also true that observation that is not in accordance with existing theory is usually wrong. But when it is right then that can be quite exciting. But just because some theories are wrong does not, in any way, mean that any experience that goes counter to existing theory must be right.
Indeed, and the most important thing in any such consideration is that the observation is genuine and honest (and I have no reason to think that is not the case in this thread), as accurate as possible and free from bias. To achieve accuracy and bias when dealing with subjective assessment (and, worse, of a subjective medium like music), it is necessary to apply controls - the most valuable one, which is easy to achieve yet surprisingly rarely applied, being blind testing.
Observation absent controls and rigor tend to lead to ill-formed theories.
Quote straight from the lips of the Sony marketing department back in the early 80ās when CDs first appeared on the scene.
Of course good science requires than any observation that is not in accordance with theory and models must be reproducible by others under the same conditions. That is indeed hard if we hear differently, but perhaps there are several groups that each hear the same and those groups would be able to reproduce results. The environment of noise generation would either have to be the same or controlled.
bailyhill
Or even better : the wife test
True, but even if it passes the unbiased wife test, other, unintended ācontrolsā on SQ advancement can come in to play, depending on the cost of the thing being tested.
Dāoh!
Is suspect, though, that when groups of people listen to music in an uncontrolled environment it is easy for one or a couple of the members of the group to greatly influence the others.
I have seen this happenā¦people can react differently in a group. My own personal testing stand point is ā¦ if I have to sit there and ask myself is there a differenceā¦there probably is not. A positive difference for me has to be immediately apparent and leap out and grab me. When I changed from a NAP250 to the 500ā¦ I could tell within the 1st few bars of familiar music the difference. It was same when I used to tune cars ā¦ if I had to measure that there was an improvement in 0 to 60ā¦it probably was not thereā¦if you could immediately feel there differenceā¦a good perceptible difference you probably had at least a 5hp gain. This was always born - out when I had my cars tested on the rollers.
Indeed! I wasnāt forgetting what youāve told us, just being respectful of others!
Whoops ā¦slight deviation ā¦somebody put this thread back on courseā¦
Weāve been here sooo many times.
Previously it was ācablesā eg speaker cables.
They had to be the right way round.
Naim know this. They mark their cables to make it easy for customers to get things right.
Iāve lost count of the number of āElectrical Engineersā or āPhysistsā on the forum who are adamant that electricity doesnāt know which way a cable it facing, especially AC current.
But many of us can hear the difference and act accordingly. Some canāt, so they donāt bother.
As for the physics, well, we (ie scientists, engineers etc) donāt know everything so canāt always account for unexpected outcomes. But it does open up the opportunity for further research - if you think itās worthwhile.
Same with regard to ethernet switches and cables.
But that research comes with real responsibility.
I havenāt seen too much of that in this thread.
Hi I did some experimenting with power leads ā¦ I found this interestingā¦as it mirrored what I feltā¦
Well I suspect they were not really engineers then (unless they were being literal as clearly electricity for the vast majority is not considered as a sentient being)ā¦ most electrical/electronics engineers will know there are many variables and considerations with the flow of current from source into load - even more so in my opinion for AC.
I suspect one might be referring more to armchair wiki surfersā¦
Hi Simon,
Iāve been on this forum for c.20 years.
I have lost count of the number of people who have actually declared themselves to be an engineer or a physist, usually in an attenpt to establish a position of superior knowledge, and then gone on to claim that it is impossible for cable direction (or whatever) to affect sound quality.
Iām not claiming to be one of them. I donāt know how honest they were being in claiming such status. They might well have all been wiki surfers ! But I do know there have been plenty of them.
Now, I have a couple of degrees in engineering (civil) and an interest in physics (it kinda helps to understand how aeroplanes and their systems work) and I have long said, including on this forum, that if something reliably and repeatedly happens, it happens. If our understanding of physics or science says it shouldnāt happen, well itās usually because our understanding of science is inadequate.
However, I am delighted that people are willing to share their knowledge of science, especially when clarifying otherwise muddled or misleading statements that find their way onto these pages. So for example, Beachcomberās contribution regarding ābit are bitsā I thought was delivered in a very clear way and consequently very helpful.
Likewise, most of your explanations, well, probably all of them actually.
Bits are bitsā¦ok but itās only as good as the delivery chainā¦if noise or something is stopping information getting through and it doesā¦ I have proved it (to myself) others feel the same wayā¦ ergo some information is not making it thoroughā¦ bits are bits gives the impression its infallible its not ā¦ I would argue that itās about as tricksy as messing around with analogue. The ultimate expression of the bits is bits ā¦ is the transmission via optical cable ā¦ thatās not bomb proof eitherā¦ Yes the digital packet protocals are clever and resilientā¦but the dac and receiving electronics has to cope with a smoke screen of other stuff - with optical stray reflections/jitter etc etc maybe due to fibre imperfections (and yes optical imperfections do measure)ā¦and cope with dithering at and to incredibly low levelsā¦ So ok the clever packets must according - to those better than me to judge - make it through and āshake handsā - maybe its the susceptibility of the dac - something is happening and it seems to be effected by noiseā¦
Don, insightful post - yes I feel those that can share and explain without preaching are the most helpfulā¦ Now I admit I might transcend that line occasionally - but only out of sheer frustration
But those that repeat a mantra from others without understanding i usually feel are not helpful - as inevitably they end up repeating things that are not the case or are nonsense.
A small section from The Earā¦this reiterates my findings I am not aloneā¦
I tried it on a Netgear GS108 gigabit switch that sits between my router and the streamer and, on this occasion, three alternative NAS drives. The quality of the drive had a clear bearing on the degree of improvement that this supply delivers. But in each case that improvement was obvious, and unsurprisingly greatest with the least audio oriented drive, a WD MyBook Live. This sounds pretty coarse on its own but gains depth and better timing with this supply, it also gets cleaner and thus easier to enjoy in a revealing system. If I were using the WD for most of my listening it would be an essential upgrade