‘I rest my case’. Rumpole of the Bailey
Carefully shopped about £5000. But it will sound splendid.
Matching green lights as a bonus.
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ZMF Caldera’s . . . nice!!!
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I posted this about 3 or 4 years ago. In fact I’m grooving to it now with my HD-800 in my den while the kids hog the living room.
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I think I was the first, maybe only, one who mentioned £5k in relation to speakers, though I didn’t put a figure on headphones. Whilst I wouldn’t necessarily expect a sub-£1k headphone to match or beat a £5k speaker for sound quality, I have yet to come across any closed back* headphone costing more than £3.5k (I am sure there must be some, but haven’t cropped up in any searches of headphones I’ve made) - yet speakers are only just getting into semi-decent territory at £5k, and really decent speakers are north of £20k, some considerably so. It is patently cheaper to get the best of headphones than it is of speakers. (Also speakers are more demanding of amps because of the huge amount of air they have to shift compared to headphones.)
*Closed back are the only type I’ve looked into because for me the primary benefit of headphones is being able to play in proximity to people who don’t want to hear, or where there is intrusive background noise such as someone else watching TV,
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In terms of detail and clarity, usually even a $500 pair of headphones would beat $5k speakers in my experience. It’s just the nature of the beast. Headphone listening is like listening to music under a microscope, minus the soundstage.
So in my case, I would absolutely expect a $1.5k pair of cans to not simply compare with but show a pair of far more expensive speakers a clean pair of heels.
Whether you enjoy the presentation of headphones over speakers is another matter. If you don’t get on with headphones, no amount of money thrown at them will make the difference.
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I have Focal Clear and ATC 40A in speakers… the Focal are quite far behind, to have tried the Utopia they are those who would approach the best of the ATC at the level of the stamps, clarity… of course not for the image or physical sensation!
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I will strongly disagree. Even focal utopias, abyss 1266TC, which are priced 4-6k don’t sound as good as my Harbeth 30.2XDs which are priced at around 4K. The headphones driven by XI Audio Formula S which is a 4K amp and using the same SW1x DAC. The speakers with Naim.
IMHO headphones sound more detailed than speakers is a myth. I spent a lot of money on the back of that statement.
I don’t doubt that’s been your experience but if I had to guess i will say that your listening environment is the cause. In my room this has definitely not been the case. Which would make sense because my listening room is a bedroom and has great acoustic properties and is pretty much a near field listening experience.
Off topic, but do people really need spend 20K for a pair of speakers, to get decent musical reproduction?
I have never tried reproducing the sound in my lounge, that I heard, when I worked at one of Italy’s top Opera houses, but I am sure my more modest setup would be equally enjoyable. But the sound system I have at home, which cost far less, is much better than the sound systems they used to amplify Jazz concerts, and is much better than the sound I heard at a Richard Ashcroft gig this summer.
I can speak only for myself: my speakers in current incarnation retail at ~£30k (I only paid a low proportion of that). They are distinctly better than any other speakers I’ve heard costing less than that, and for my enjoyment they are definitely worth having. As regards “need” for decent musical reproduction: need for musical enjoyment: no, I would not be unhappy if I still had my first decent speakers, which if made today they would probably cost around £8k, maybe more. Based on all the speakers I have heard I think I’d be unhappy with lesser speakers than those. (It of course doesn’t mean I couldn’t enjoy music, but to me it would not be decent reproduction.) And I get greater enjoyment from my existing speakers. And I’ll hazard that there are speakers costing twice as much or more that I would enjoy even more.
You might ask do people really need a source costing £5k, let alone £20k or £30k upwards. My store-transport + DAC has a new value over £10k, but I would still be very happy and enjoy listening if I still had Hugo instead of Dave, so maybe £4k, but Dave brings more enjoyment.
The secret to being happy with speakers you can afford is to never demo any above that. I love my m30.2xd’s but part of the reason I was happy to listen to them was that I knew there was a graded pair available (honestly I have no idea what supposed defect the cabinets had I assume they are either non identical or it’s something that requires a magnifying glass to see as it doesn’t effect how they sound I don’t care). The only why I’d be able to listen to anything more expensive is if they were A. decades old pre owned pair or B. Had been thrown from the delivery truck and badly damaged 
. I would of course listen to more speakers and higher naim equipment if I won the lottery or got an unexpected inheritance. I can’t imagine what a £10000 plus speaker sounds like honestly and since I can’t I’m just happy with the perfectly balanced sound I’ve found.
When it comes to headphones it seems like they are even more divisive than speakers I’m on a couple of headphone Reddit groups just because I like hearing about different options and opinions. And there is truly an insane amount of different opinions on what sounds good and what can be considered good enough to be hifi . There are plenty of people arguing exact opposites about the same things or saying this statement or that statement is categorically wrong. Though I will admit I haven’t looked much at more expensive headphones and the only ones I see mentioned regularly are hd800s and the meze empyrean 2’s. From what I’d seen I also assumed that headphones were cheaper for the sound quality than speakers. Obviously I’m just not looking at the right headphone forum’s (probably for the best since I don’t ever plan to go all in on headphones).
I have wondered more than once if it would have been cheaper to go the atom he and headphones route but then I think about the comfort of not having to wear anything when listening for hours. It’s sort of reassuring that it might be the case id have had to have spent similar money to get the same sound quality even going the headphone route.
I suppose it depends on criteria for assessing which is better - but live performances are not renowned for sound quality, whereas with playback of recorded music we have the luxury of being able to maximise the quality of reproduction. I used to have some speakers of a similar quality to those found in sound reinforcement, great for their intended purpose, but they weren’t great in domestic rooms at domestic listening levels.
That is unlike my present speakers, which are (other than in cosmetic finish) identical to those used in a good few studios to monitor and master recordings. I guess specifiers of speakers for professional monitoring have similar demands for sound quality as do I.
I have some stellias with an he and quite frankly i much rather the 705s2 with nap100 and nap fed by the he.
The problem with headphones is the HRTF(head related transfer function) differs for each individual because of ear shape and ear canal effects, which explains the huge differences of opinion in headphones. Pads are another factor, dependent on material, shape, distance from ear, seal etc. Add in impedance, SS or tube amps. It’s personal!
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Damn. I thought it meant Hormone Replacement Transfer Ferapy…
Signals,audio dealer by appointment have the Polish company Ferum listed and had in stock the Hypsos power supply.Capable of powering the CERN collider.
So Andy has loaned the Oor headphone amplifier from the same company.
They are with me on trial at the moment and very impressive they are.
The amplifier on its own is fine but you know how us Naimees find an additional power supply irresistible.
The brown fe is rusted metal. Treated in some way but looking quite unique.
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I’m in the process of reading this thread after just finding it… I’ll add some additional stuff etc as I go along.
I used to be 2 channel… then headphone plus 2 channel… and then dropped 2 channel speaker system after several months of no use.
First, it is a different way to listen, which is obvious and not for everyone. However, done right you can end up with a crazy system in terms of detail, staging and depth. It can be ultra real as in, feeling like your amongst the musicians.
The bad news is it’s not a cheap alternative. My current system is way more expensive that my 2 channel system. But, now I just don’t miss speakers at all.
One thing that amazes me is when I see someone buy a pair of headphones for £4K and then feed it with music from a computer. Just like a 2 channel system balance is all important… it can be a long journey but very rewarding.
To start with, keep your 2 channel system while you start building a headphone chain… you already have a great source! Demo solid state and tube headphone amps…very different characteristics.
Ultimately, look for a really good dealer that also specialises is headphone systems and spend a day or two trying everything from lower stuff to the best so you know what’s possible! You’ll have great fun at the same time!
I found things only really took off for me once I got past the £2.5k mark for headphones. I bought a pair for £1k and the dealer warned me I’d be disappointed after listening to speakers with a Naim system. He was right.
My VEGA G2.2 is my main source but I do love listening to vinyl via headphones as well. I built my amp from the Aegis tube project from L0rdGwyn that is now sold by ZMF. Mine has quite a few upgrades such as solid silver Jupiter caps, lundahl transformers plus other stuff and a custom chassis I design and built myself… love it. Take your time and enjoy the journey!!! It can be very rewarding!
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Are your headphones quadraphonic or something? You keep contrasting them with 2-channel.
When I say 2 channel I mean speakers. Within headphone arena, that’s just how we refer to speaker systems compared to headphones… I apologise if it confused you, but I have a feeling it didn’t!
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I assumed that’s what you meant but it’s an odd distinction, and after all I believe you can get quad 'phones.
In my opinion you need both speakers and headphones, there is a time for everything.
The beauty of headphones is that you can have a high quality experience for a fraction of the price.
Speakers is something you can share, which is important to me.
Don’t ask me to make a choice please.
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