I hear what you’re saying and I think that would be reasonable if the issue was widespread. The reality is that for >99% of units, it actually isn’t an issue.
What the forum does with problems is magnify them a bit because every single user with the same problem posts and chips in. We see this on all sorts of threads. Thousands of units shipped. A user has a legitimate complaint about an issue and every user who has experienced the same contributes. Before you know it, 95% of the posters in a thread have all had the same issue. It gives an unfortunate distorted impression of the prevalence of any issue.
The truth is most balance knobs are even and most users don’t even notice imbalance at low levels due to speaker sensitivity and distance from speakers.
Are we sure checking the range of movement is the correct approach here?
I only ask because a quick check of my 52 indicates it’s way off. It probably ranges from 7 o’ clock to 4 o’ clock. Which indicates that level should be at around 11. In reality a couple of minutes past 12 gives balance for me.
Is it possible the balance is set by Naim to be approximately at 12 which isn’t necessarily in the middle of the range of the pot?
It’s one thing to check because it can pinpoint one of the possible causes, i.e. a decentered knob. Doesn’t necessarily rule out other causes.
Obviously depends on the details, but if, say, it sounds centered when the knob is at 3 o’clock, and if that’s not because of placement/room, and at the same time the knob goes to 8 on the right and to 10 on the left, then this will typically point to an uncentered knob.
If, on the other hand, it sounds centered when the knob points to roughly 12 o’ clock, then obviously one would not worry about asymmetry at the end stops. (They never are exactly symmetrical)
Yes absolutely. I’m sure these minor niggles are rare and people in general take to the internet mostly when there are issues or problems as opposed to creating thousands of threads to praise a product or service. I work in a manufacturing and engineering industry so I’m well aware these things do arise from time to time.
To clarify, I’m still more than happy and satisfied with this product and I wouldn’t change it. The product has a balance control, I’ve used it and now I’m enjoying superb audio. As mentioned earlier, my room isn’t symmetrical so this will be a contributing factor. If necessary, a lengthy guarantee is available to utilise. No complaints here whatsoever.
I don’t think any of my investigation has really been appropriately scientific so should be taken with a pinch of salt. The amp sounds fantastic when adjusted on the balance control. I don’t think there’s a fault per se, possibly a minor assembly issue occurred here. That’s all.
Sure, I hadn’t meant to imply that it was for sure the cause, with vague descriptions and no pictures we can’t tell. Just one possibility.
In your case, if it’s just a few minutes out from 12, it might not have to do anything with the knob or pot, and the cause could just as well be a few centimeters different speaker distance or a not 100% symmetrical room.
and in part, at least on certain models, because there are splines on the pot’s spindle that don’t allow every knob angle.
On my 252, a centered image is very close to 12 o’ clock (with sometimes small variations that surely are caused by my ears and mood), but the end stops are not fully symmetrical either
It does. When I’m stressed, I tend to turn my head slightly to the right, so the left ear is more turned toward the speaker. I had to learn noticing this and taking it as a cue to relax, instead of taking it as a cue to nudge speakers around
No. If one feels the need to keep constantly adjusting then there is something not quite right. That’s not how it’s supposed to be IME. The sound stage should be rock solid in the middle, whether there be more going on in one speaker or the other, it’s unmistakable once one hears it. It’s like everything snaps into place and all channel unbalances become banished, regardless of tune being played - which i’ve found is incredibly easy to get wrong with poor connection practices.
Had a good think about this and here is my conclusion. This is for Supernait 3 but I’m assuming its the same for any amp/pre amp with an Alps pot;
The balance control knob has;
No ‘end of travel’ denoted visually for fully left/right on the chassis.
No ‘centre point’ denoted visually on the chassis.
No ‘centre point’ denoted by mechanical haptic feedback.
Therefore, finding the perfect centre audibly by trial and error is the only viable method and due to the nature of the Alps pot and possibly variation during assembly, the final location for the balance knob when in a perfectly 50/50 state between left and right channels may differ between models and should be considered normal.
This is unlike any other piece of hi-fi or audio equipment myself and most others have ever used. Typically, there is at least mechanical haptic feedback in the knob and the knob will sit at 12 o’clock when in that state and be denoted visually on the chassis. Therefore, Naim should explain this in the instruction manual.
IME with a SN3 say between 11 o’clock and 1 o’clock there is very little difference in channel movement. Therefore a centre dot or line is unnecessary.
It could actually be considered a very clever solution. Firstly, it mitigates the need for Naim to spend time matching every pot to a mechanical haptic feedback point and centre mark on the chassis during the production process. Secondly, it forces the user to experiment with balance and find the perfect centre. Which will inevitably then take into account speaker placement and room acoustics etc.
I can relate to this. The NAC102 I had was particularly tricky (or odd…) in this respect. It actually went back to Naim - and had its main PCB changed. But it never seemed quite right. So I got an 82… Much better. (As is my 72…)
I believe that Naim test & select the ALPS pots they use. The better ones go into the higher end units. I guess an SN3 might well get a not so great pot…? Not sure - perhaps @Richard.Dane can comment if my thought or recollection is correct…?
The room and speaker positioning, relative to listening position, are all obvious factors. And - there is what you are listening too. Some recordings just don’t give a very convincing stereo image - while other do. I highly recommend this Naim CD to better understand whats going on:
Not expensive. Probably could be found on The River or in the Bay, too.
IIRC, the NAC552 had specially selected pots so got the cream. Any pot that was below a certain baseline standard though would not make production for any unit.
I know that my ‘off’ 102 had a fully main PCB change - including both Pots. But - Salisbury just charged me I think £200 - which was listed as Pots Replaced. The 102 - sadly - was the only Naim unit which just didn’t work for me. I stuck with its Balance related issues for around 8 years (in a far from ideal room), before I got first a 72, then an 82…
That has been my experience exactly with my ex-dem 552 - the sound almost disappears from the right side at low but not super-low volume, to the point where I may need to start using the balance control as described above for late night listening. Agree, it seems an accepted trait as a Naim technical expert confirmed the non-linearity of the 552 pot at low volume (he also mentioned that this pot is unique to the 552 which I was not aware of?).
Still, the sound is so good overall that this is just one of the ‘foibles’ of ownership that I am happy to live with
