Hi - been out of the loop for a while and couldn’t find a clear solution to this.
I’ve got the first version of the Naim DAC. I’m using Apple Music for music streaming.
If possible - what’s the (cheapest) way of streaming lossless high-res files provided by Apple Music to the Naim DAC? Preferably using just my iPad.
I’m using a Lightning to USB cable ATM and the music plays fine. But the hi-res light on the DAC does not light up and I don’t think it’s being streamed in high-res (above 44.1/16bit).
Did a bit of digging and it seems Apple calls 24/48 lossless and that high-res lossless is above that (and up to 24/192).
The high-res light still won’t light up for me though (iPad is set accordingly and indicates that the high-res-version is indeed being played). So something must be amiss between the iPad and the DAC.
Mind you - from my digging around it’s not entirely clear to me wether this is possible at all.
Allows hires to nDAC via lightning port and Apple Camera adapter.
Also does MQA.
24/192 works flawlessly (if you can find the right Tidal content!)
Temporary workaround in lounge until naim release a firmware with Max support, at which point it will become our permanent solution for SuperUniti (with a Raspberry PI driving it).
Thanks jmtennapel - I see. Just for my own understanding.
Would it be correct to assume that the USB input of the Naim DAC (in the first version I have) is not capable of receiving a high-res signal? But that in indeed can on the SPDIF-input.
So the workaround, as per your answer, is to route the signal via a some device (such as the Topping) which can take the high-res signal of the iPad - and at the same time forward it over SPDIF.
If so - I guess it makes sense - and I will be looking to get a Topping.
Not at all. The USB input can take hi-res no problem.
According to the Naim DAC white paper; “USB memory stick – Naim DAC will play WAV files with sample rates of up to 768kHz (although some USB sticks may be too slow to deliver audio at high sample rates - 768kHz audio requires up to 6.1 Mbytes per second constant data flow)”
I have only played files of up to 24bit 192kHz - these can be absolutely stunning via the rear USB socket.
I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet that Naim will not attempt to support hi-res streams on 1st gen streamers in Tidal, for the same reason they didn’t give them Qobuz support. The proxy server workaround seems like the neatest solution to me - or just bypass the streaming board completely and connect another streamer straight to the DAC - is that what you do with the RPi?
The NDAC has Apple ‘Made for iPhone’ certification, as did the 1st gen streamers, so any iOS device should work with them via USB. Naim chose this inpreference to Airplay which they use on the 2nd gen. streamers.
Thanks all for the answers. Here’s what I can confirm so far:
Highres wav-files on USB-stick makes the HD-light come on.
Using an iPad pro with USB-C to A into the NDac works, but no HD light. I tried using both Apple Music and the Qobuz-app. This setup works according to Ryder35 using the mojo 2.
I’m a bit reluctant to try the Apple camera adapter as I’ve seen mixed results reported. Can those who have tried this exact setup confirm that it indeed works. By exact setup I mean iPad Pro → USB C to A → NDac using the Apple Music app (this app does indeed play highres up to 24/192 - it can be confirmed on the playback-screen).
To me the most viable solution is still the one suggested by jmtennapel - routing via the Topping. Only challenge is that it’s not readily available in DK AFAIK.
The SMSL takes hires over USB (from both iPad and RPI) and provides to any naim device using SPDIF.
We are currently using to get Tidal Max into NDX2 but will stop once naim provide a firmware for NDX2 which supports Tidal Max (hopefully soon, many other hardware vendors now support this).
For the office SuperUniti we are well aware naim won’t be providing Max support via firmware. So we’ll use SMSL from RPI into SuperUniti - there are other options such as RPI digital hats, but we’ve found the SMSL actually sounds a little better than this via SPDIF.
iPad lightning to USB front input nDAC - NO two lights on nDAC.
Pause mid tune,
iPad lightning - Apple Camera Adapter - SMSL - toslink - nDAC… two lights on nDAC (hires).
So it does seem that direct USB connection is somewhat limited (I think to 48kHz).
Playing from Tidal the track Stevie Wonder, Superstition - via our normal setup (SPDIF to NDX2)…SMSL lights go red (24/192) so an iPad can output hires, it’s up to the connected device to interpret.
Let’s not forget, that the original Apple-USB connect was made for the iPods of the time (inherited by phone/tablet) and was done sometime in 200x. It´s Apple proprietary, and at that time handling HiRes on devices measuring Megabytes (not Gigabytes) was not priority. Using the same limit like for AirPlay at the time (similar to CD quality) made perfect sense, given that Apple did not start offering HiRes (or even lossless) until +/- 15 year later.
When using any media converter (e.g. USB to SPDIF) these days, you use general USB-standard protocols for device type „audio playback“, and here iOS/iPadOS support hires just so, since it’s part of/on top the standard USB protocol.
So both paths take a very different route through the software stack
@IainO: thank you so much - your findnings confirm the understanding I have. Very useful for me!
For anyone searching up this thread I think the conclusion must be that the original Naim DAC can not, via a direct cabled connection, receive a high-res signal from an iPad to its USB-port. This seems to hold no matter wether using a Lightning-to-USB connection using Apple’s Camera Connect dongle or a USB-C og USB-A cabled connection on iPad pro’s. *Noting that the USB-port is indeed capable of playing high-res wav-files off a USB-stick as per @Richard.Dane’s post.
The solution seems to use a device that can take the high-res signal of the iPad and forward over SPDIF to the Naim DAC. 2 such devices are so far mentioned here: The “SMSL PO100 Pro” and the “Topping D10 DAC”.
From a quick Google search it seems that the SMSL PO100 Pro is most readily available - at least in DK as per the date of this post.
The SMSL PO100 Pro is the best £40 we’ve ever spent on hifi, been using for a while now and still no news from naim on a firmware upgrade to support Tidal Max so it is looking less of a short term and more of a medium term option……
Just received the SMSL today. Brilliant device! The high-res light on the NDac indeed turns on. So thanks again!
Bit strange though. I connected the SMSL via Toslink to the NDac and USB-C directly to an iPad Pro. It’s as if it is locked on to high-res only. E.g. - when I play a standard resolution lossless track the high-res light remains on. The blue light on the SMSL also remain on which according to the manual means above 88.2 samplingrate. Is this something you’ve seen @IainO?
Don’t think so, lights go green (I think for 16/44.1) from track to track depending on resolution, when “High” is the availability on Tidal.
Maybe latest iPad Pro is a bit different. We use Lightning via Apple USB adapter and SPDIF.
On Tidal we can click the currently playing track to see resolution - not seen the SMSL disagree with that, will check later.
How are you finding SQ? We have an NDX2 as transport into nDAC (RRP £6K) and whilst it does sound better than the SMSL on same 16/44.1 recordings there’s not a 6 grand gap to our ears……will be able to better compare once Naim eventually support Max.
I have to say the delay is becoming increasingly annoying, a number of other manufacturers now support Max natively.
I may have rushed to conclusions - it seems to be switching resolution correctly now. Not quite sure yet though. Apple Music reports the highest available quality in the album-information as well as the quality of the track currently playing. Many tracks are available in several qualities - depending on settings etc, - and I suspect something can go amiss in that chain from time to time.
Regarding SQ. As I wrote in my OP I’ve been out of the loop for years. Still have my “old” system (NDAC/NAC282/NAP200 3-way active system using SNAXO 362 into Audiovector’s) - it’s mostly used for casual listening rather than critical - and I don’t feel qualified to make any claims on SQ. But to me it sounds very good. It may be sounding better now using the SMSL than it did with the iPad Pro directly into the NDac.
On that last point. It may be that a direct iPad to NDac connection is using the old “iPod”-protocol (as @PhilipVH mentioned earlier in this thread). I have also have an iPad Pro with lightening connector - this also works directly into the NDac using a Lightening to USB-A cable - e.g. without the camera connection kit (albeit with no hi-res). This however does not work with the SMSL (with the proper cable). My other iPad with USB-C on the other hand works - with both connection methods (but high-res only via the SMSL).
My sympathies regarding the waiting time on native Max support. I suppose it’s the conundrum for niche products in a tech world where interface support is a “majority”-decision…
