Home wifi in 2019?

Eero mesh is what I’m using and yes its fantastic especially when configured as a wired backhaul. Replace Apple products like the OP. Not sure I’m so happy that Amazon has purchased them but that’s life.

Multi access points with wired back hauls acting as a single WLAN (wireless LAN) are NOT mesh… they are multiple APs configured as an ESSID . A mesh is an array of wireless access nodes, that effectively route traffic wirelessly to each other. The more mesh modes you have the more effective the mesh WLAN becomes. You typically would engineer one or more wired backhaul connection nodes at a few key nodes edges in the mesh.
A group of wired access points configured as WLANs with a single extended SSID per WLAN, will usually participate with each other and offer functions like host steering and loadbalancing, but they function by connecting and bridging the wireless host to the LAN at the access point, rather than routing the host traffic across the WLAN nodes as with a mesh. The more node hops required in a mesh the less the effective maximum throughput.
It is for this reason, in terms of absolute throughput, a wired ESSID WLAN will usually outperform a mesh WLAN, and care is required in the design of a mesh network to maintain optimum performance
I realise that some consumer Wifi product marketing blurs this and obfuscates this important distinction, and simply confusingly uses ‘mesh’ as a marketing term for multiple access points perhaps running proprietary protocols as opposed to supporting 802.11s mesh protocols and functionality … buts it’s not the first time and I am sure it won’t be the last…
Simon

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I think it’s technically possible to have mesh node products that use an alternative medium, other that wifi, for the backbone. So these have all of the routeing and client migration aspects of 100% wifi mesh products but coupled with the far superior wired (for example) backbone for the traffic. For example I’ve seen mesh products that use homeplug as the backbone and these allow you to separate the nodes a lot further apart and hence less interference, better performance, reduced cost (lower number of nodes required).

Just throwing that out to blur the subject a bit more :wink:

It may be, without checking 802.11s, it may be the inter node protocols can be encapsulated or tunnelled via other media, although I can’t imagine a PLA type medium would be particularly effective; the key thing with mesh is that the traffic hps has across nodes, so nodes both receive and transmit the traffic until the edge of the mesh and the bridge to the network is made.(which is why there is a throughput performance penalty for mesh). Mesh as in 802…11s has its own standardised protocols for achieving this by routing across the wireless meshed nodes…
As I say a set of access points that bridge the host to the LAN is not a mesh, it is instead a set of participating points acting as a single WLAN that can request and pass hosts between them should the host be willing to accept. With a mesh, the host needs to do nothing other than connect to its nearest mesh node… the mesh does all the work.

So if getting a mesh product do check for confirmed stated support of 802.11s… perhaps even with proprietary extensions… but that way you know you will have less risk of interoperability with either other host clients or mesh nodes down the line…
In data networks I would be wary of proprietary only solutions…you may find your new shiny consumer product short lived…

None of my other devices will be able to take advantage…iPhones, laptops and Amazon Fire and Wii. If I were streaming music within the home that’d be different, but both music players are hard-wired.

The benefit is more in the Wi-Fi backbone (backhaul) between extending access points and your primary hard wired access points. The clients will also benefit even if they don’t support Wi-Fi 6 due to reduced congestion and higher concurrency possible on Wi-Fi 6 vs previous generations.

I reluctantly ditched my trusty AirPort Extreme recently after 7 years. Since I wanted to move to a mesh network, with some reservation I moved to a Google Wifi setup. Whilst I’ve little faith in Google not to prematurely abandon support in future, I must say it’s proven a reliable and robust successor thus far.

Well you are brave, i’ll give you that.

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I’m using a google mesh system and have found it to be excellent, too.

One thing to be aware of with almost all of the current mesh based solutions like Orbi, Plume, Google and so forth is that they use proprietary software to further optimise their solutions whereas Wi-Fi 6 (802.11ax) is designed to interoperate in a more inclusive and friendly manner.

If you buy in to any of the current crop of solutions you can only extend within that vendors ecosystem.
If you buy a Netgear Orbi Access Point for example, it’s only going to extend and mesh with other Orbi products.

Wi-Fi Alliance EasyMesh (MAP - Multi Access Point) aims to remove that limitation and improve interworking between vendors as well as giving improved throughput and handling of concurrency with more efficiency.

Plus one for Ubiquity UniFi. I use AC Lite access points and the Switch 8 switches to supply PoE, both items at the low end of price and still very very good performance.

Our house is tall-ish (3 floors with 10’ ceilings) and very long front-to-back. At the moment I have three APs not optimally places to help work out what I need for final installation - at moment I have one top floor front, two ground floor front and back, none in basement. I’m constrained as there is no good way to get wired backhaul onto top floor back… so having the ground floor back AP up high is working really well (it’s directly underneath the Atom and gives max rate and low latency connection through the ceiling/floor).

If you buy them singly, the AC Lites come with PoE injectors; if you buy the five-pack, it looks a lot cheaper but you get no PoE injectors so decide before you buy.

You need to install the control software somewhere on your network to do initial adoption and setup (for switches and APs both, plus router if you want one), but that need not run all the time. If you run it all the time (I have it in a container on my Synology 918 NAS), you have really nice monitor functionality via web interface or iPhone app. This includes load and performance info, per-client wifi experience, etc. I found this really useful when my Atom switched to a different AP and performance dropped… switched back to best signal point and back to flawless. Also needed to provision guest network and set on/off times (I have a guest network for our son to isolate his traffic and to ensure he does not just surf all night).

Bottom line: highly recommended everywhere you can use wired backhaul for the AP, they really do just work amazingly well; adding more for greater overlapping coverage can be done incrementally; super value with prosumer performance at regular consumer price point.

Regards alan

Thanks Alan. In addition to the room where my ISP’s modem/router resides, I have only one other wired ethernet connection in my home. I run a very long (50 meters?) stretch of Cat 5 to my living room where my ND555 system resides. What I don’t know is whether it’s possible, or highly desirable, to run POE to there.

Hi Bart -

You definitely cannot connect a PoE live wire to non PoE equipment, so be super cautious as you start building up your system config.

I’d add a switch at the ND555 end of your long cable backhaul run, with one (non-PoE!!) connection going directly to the local system and a second (PoE from switch or injector as you choose) to the UniFi AP Lite. Note that the only way to power these is PoE, so that final run to the access point must come from a PoE port in your switch or, if using an unpowered switch, into then out of the PoE injector.

It’s harder to describe than to do when you have all the bits in front of you… but I use coloured tape to remind myself which Ethernet cables are powered so that I don’t do any harm especially while moving things around and deciding how I want things to be in the longer term.

I started first with just two AC Lites, to get the hang of things, install the control software, learn about the PoE injectors, etc. That was already a very good setup, but you know… Then I bought another AP, some switches and the tiny UniFi router to see if I could get that going to convert my ISP router into just the (fibre) modem. I did get it going nicely, and it’s cool to have “deep packet inspection”, but I couldn’t get the VLAN setup correct to send the tv signal properly (I have a trunking line into living room where TV, Nova, and a Mac mini live, plus now an AC Lite), so have parked that idea for a future project especially since the ISP router seems capable enough. It’s been a good fun and rewarding thing to do and I think incremental installation is working out fine… maybe two more APs will let me reduce power and increase coverage in the house, and one or two more switches will replace the last cheap ones in my network.

Keep in touch as you get started!

Regards alan

Thanks again Alan. Indeed I was contemplating a small switch at the ND555, but the reminder is appreciated! I’m guessing that I can avoid the entire POE thing and just use ‘remote’ AP’s from Ubiquiti that plug into the home ac power and extend the wifi network emanating from a Ubiquiti ‘base?’ Perhaps performance is not as robust??

Hmm…

I think I’d look closely at the new Ubiquiti AC Mesh products if you decide not to go with wired backhaul extended SSID using a set of AC Lites. I’m not familiar with how these two configurations would work together - eg with two AC Lites as the edge backhaul points where you have existing Ethernet wiring in your living room and ISP router, plus AC Mesh access points sprinkled through the rest of your house. Maybe you could start with just the two AC Lites, and go from there? But if it’s one or the other, I’d install two AC mesh products first at these backhaul points to avoid a mis-spend.

There looks to be a decent YouTube UAC / UAC-M video that could get you started (I’m in transit, did not watch) … but I sense that maybe you can mix and match UAP and UAP-M products (I’m now intrigued, since it would be ideal for adding wifi to our rooftop deck!)

The PoE shouldn’t put you off, it’s exactly as easy as connecting an Ethernet cable and a small power supply to other devices, but the two connections happen at the injectors instead of at the device itself. That’s why I said it’s harder to describe than to do!

Regards alan

ps -the ‘remote’ in Ubiqiti world refers mostly to using a single controller interface to manage multiple site networks; I don’t think the access points are ‘remote’

pps - yes! Here is the link to Ubiqiti “how to” guide for using a wired AC as the wireless uplink for an AC-M mesh access point (hoping this is okay, @Richard.Dane as it is not really a commercial / retail link… but leaving to your moderation)

So, I’d go with two AC Lites as the mesh edges and best in-room wifi experience, and add AC-M points to slowly build out coverage throughout the house.

Thanks for prompting this discussion @Bart, I’m going to try this for my third floor bedroom / rooftop deck!

Regards alan

Alan you have fallen into the trap, the Unifi AC Lites are NOT mesh devices… they are participating Access points that are typically setup as a WLAN that are optimised for ethernet connectivity via a switch between them. You can use an (upto four) AC lite with a wireless backhaul/uplink to a single wired AC lite if you need to for infill etc (Hub and spoke style) , but there is typically a performance hot as with many mesh solutions, albeit this is a single hop.

I use two AC lite APs with PoE Ethernet between them, and they are set to loadbalance and band steer between them… performance is outstanding… and can support multiple client high capacity Wifi transfers, such as multiple casting of hidef video and undertaking other functions.

Hi Simon -

All I meant was that you can blend the AC-M (mesh) access points into an infrastructure built using AC-Lite wired backhaul devices; adopting an AP wirelessly is the key to that.

It’s not the same as converting an ESSID model to a Mesh model, true, and I did not mean to imply that. On the other hand, since they seem to internally manage load balancing and multi-hop wireless downlinks are permitted, it blurs the distinction for practical, if not for pedantic, purposes.

For my use case (adding a single wireless-only island) and potentially for @Bart’s (limited wired backhaul points, but an unknown need for additional wireless-only APs) this capability is good news… and that was my intention to highlight.

Agreed that my shorthand enthuastic comment, and the specific Ubiqiti device name (which includes “Mesh” and “-M”) didn’t help preserve the topological distinction. I fell into the trap of using imprecise language, true!

Regards alan

:grinning:

But I agree with your recommendation to connect a wired ESSID WLAN over a mesh if you can… the performance gain over mesh if you have several Wifi users, many creating a fair amount of data is significant … but if you have only a few hosts with needing maximum throughput, and reach is more important than throughput for multiple uses , then I would recommend mesh… and indeed I know mesh are favoured in some football grounds and university campuses for exactly this reason… but In the use cases I have seen there is a high density of wireless mesh nodes… almost like micro cells… and the surveying is carefully done at installation time to control the drop in throughput associated with each mesh hop.