When anyone ever questions Naim there is always the ‘you haven’t set it up right’ chorus, suggesting that setup is fundamental to the proper operation of the kit and if you don’t do that it’s akin to driving your Porsche with 3 cylinders disabled (to continue with that analogy!). If setup really is that fundamental then there is something wrong with the design IMO - it’s fine to eke out the final 5-10% of performance with ‘good’ setup but any more than that?
I didn’t catched well your post apparently. As you were talking a lot of brain, imagination….I understood differently.
In my experience of the higher end Naim kit proper setup is indeed fundamental to hear what the system is fully capable of. Whether that is a design flaw is up for debate, but I’ve had kit that sounded just ok on first listen but after tweaking the cabling it became a truly engaging listen.
It’s DC so won’t interfere with the music signal (AC) and the advantage in a Naim system of running the grounds close together outweighs any possible disadvantages - same for SNAICs and Burndies as power supplies. Naim (Initially Julian then the R&D team he built up around Roy, Gary, Steve et al.) have come to these solutions through years of trying out the possibilities and going with what sounds best.
Thanks for the reply Richard
But the source cables do end up in the same box as that big transform that we are trying to get as far away as possible.
Its a strange one really when you think about it, but i guess naim know much more than we do on this.
But would naim do it this way now?
Is it the best way to do it?
Does anyone else do it?
Can’t say it’s wrong but also can’t say its right.
But i can say its strange, but also it works and it hasn’t bothered me for 25 years, its only since being on here that all this stuff comes to light and ocd steps in and the just if’s.
I agree that you might as well get the cables as good as you can, but getting obsessive about it might be a bit ott, but obviously each to there own on this.
Expectations can affect that process, too. There was an experiment several years ago in which students were told to listen for Bing Crosby singing White Christmas embedded in white noise and press a button when they heard it. Nearly a third of the students pressed the button at some point even though even though all they were actually hearing was white noise (of course). Similar things happen with vision — seeing faces in random dots, for example. The conclusion is that the brain uses more than just data directly from the eye or ear in constructing what we see or hear.
Roger
I feel that anyone reading this thread for an answer to “How good is the ND555?” will have learned more about some of the forum members personalities than finding an answer to the very subjective question .
……and now for something completely different…….
How good is the replacement 272 ?..……
As always a good discussion on here, mixed results as you would expect, but as always interesting and informative.
Thats why i like it on here, as you do tend to get correct answers most of the time. Plus every day is a new day to learn things, especially if you are open to listen, learn and try.
We need a 572 please and soon. Lol
Well, seeing how long the 273 (222) is taking, then I would not hold your breath
What a strange comment to make, to me at least. Personally i don’t see a problem with “relevant” discussions that touch on things that are related to the brand as opposed to a continuous sequence of gushing and glowing comments about how good the ND555 is, which i have no doubt that it is by the way. Then again it should be good in the right setup and system.
I did say that there is data and facts buried within the noise. (Hopefully nobody is going to tell me that it’s all facts). What I meant is just that it’s difficult to see the realities through the sum of all individual experiences, each of which is a mixture of real and perceived parts, and so the individual cultures that develop around each individual brand and topic are certainly not completely based just on realities. And therefore I don’t believe in the absolute reality of these cultures.
Very good examples. There are many of those. People who in the past orchestrated witch hunts because they heard Satan in the Beatles also heard it just because they were listening to backwards Beatles for hours until the brain invented what they expected. It’s well known and easy to test, simply record a word and replay it in a loop, it does not take longer than a minute or so until the brain invents different words that it hears. And not least, looped music like techno is largely built on this
You have to considert the whole circuit which has signal current drawn from the power supply and then it returns in a loop to that supply ground - this is a circuit loop.
Self-inductance and mutual inductance effects are proportional to the area subtended between the ‘send’ and ‘return’ paths of the signal current and is determined by the square of the distance they are apart from Faradays laws on this stuff, which seem to apply here.
…so you have a very good incentive to keep that distance very small and running side by side will do that.
I think this is what it is about - there are different sets of design parameters of what parts need to be close or apart and you juggle the system architecture and topology to find something that delivers what you want to achieve. Naim have done an excellent job with this IMO - albeit I do accept that it can look unwieldy with a large Active system.
I have dabbled with alternatives - they did not satisfy my own needs, so I’m pleased I have the Naim kit.
And the ND555 with two supplies is sufficiently excellent that I’m satisfied.
With one supply it was in comparison with other items from Chord I auditioned against but with two it just launched into a different realm of sumptuous easy musical wealth that it was enough to satisfy.
This is not to decry anything else - I do hope and expect better can be had but probably at a price and the Naim character of presentation of easy dynamic neutrality suits the rest of my system. Anything with its own sonic character over-done gets very fatiging on an Active system and you do need to have a very neutral even-handed source for the music, without this source sounding dull and boring in its presentation - somehow Naim have done this with ND555 - for me.
DB.
Well as an example I prefer Chord Music cables to Superlumina (in my system). However it’s not an absolute judgement. It’s just mine and has to be presented as being that. There is no absolute better or worse in that comparison. Just like ND555 v DCS. How can there be about such a subjective subject? Ramming home an opinion with regard to the merits of one piece of hifi over another is futile IMO.
What is “strange” is why someone who doesn’t own a single Naim component would take time out to offer negative critique about an ND555 on the NAIM forum.
Sorry am i missing something here. The guy that seems to be being talked about/‘followed’, did own an ND555, stacked and not set up properly fair enough. Decided that his dCS is better. So what. People do the same with their Linn boxes as i see. As for other Naim trolls they can be ignored. I have never heard a Naim streamer and so can’t comment but do have experience of Naim equipment. It’s interesting to me to know (but this we will never know) how really to achieve the best setup so we get the very best from our kit. Interestingly i am only beginning to see certain aspects that bring really bring positive results because i have the luxury of two listening spaces in different houses. Also it makes me wonder how many setups are anywhere near what would be even close to the best that they are capable of. Listening spaces and the compromises due to this being the main aspect.
If you are referring to me. I have an original naim suggested system 4 from 2004 recently serviced and recapped (CDS3+252+SC2+300+300ps+SL2+hicap+headline2) in one place and chrome bumper 42N+110 in another. True i don’t own a Naim streamer but i have made that clear and offer no opinion
I don’t doubt your experience at all but if minor cable manipulation makes or breaks a system then that is a significant issue in my view. I will hazard a guess that very few Naim systems operate at their full potential in that case judging by the pictures on this forum - mine included. It’s just not practical to not have any cables touch etc in most domestic environments. That level of ‘cable sensitivity’ is bad for Naim and us customers.
I think @Cohen1263 should specify who was concerned by his post. It’s not clear. I doubt Mutleb was concerned.
…Right! Stop that! It’s SILLY. Very SILLY indeed! Started off as a nice little idea…