Sure, as ever in Hi-Fi, it’s about budget and performance. A high end streamer source is like any other high end source… it’s performance can be phenomenal and be end game… but it usually takes a few iterations to get a performant end game that suits you and the system, as well as the rest of the system matching for your listening environment…
To me a top end streamer source provides top end sonic performance (textures, dynamics, space, emotion, layers, rhythmic pace etc), decoupled from interactions with hone networks (switches, Ethernet leads etc), and functionality, flexibility and ease of use.
You know when you have a top end system and streamer as it becomes so enjoyable and infectious to listen into recordings… it’s like a time machine to the recording studio or venue. You also often appreciate the feel of high definition recordings.
I do like the NDX2 as a digital output streamer with it’s ease of use and visual cues that I really appreciate… can’t see my self ever going back to a ‘dark’ transport now… I also notice now if something is playing more unusual, family members sometimes walk over to the streamer to see what is playing … nice…
You won’t get 24bit/192KHz from Tidal without an MQA capable DAC, and neither Naim nor Chord support MQA. And even with an MQA capable DAC my understanding is that the result is not bit-perfect hi res. True high res online streaming is available from some others, notably Qobuz and Highresaudio. (And of course purchasing online and streaming from your own music store.)
Just be careful, as pointed out above and in other threads, Tidal currently only offers 44.1/16 PCM. The higher encoding rates are processed using the compressed MQA format and are not PCM. Naim, Chord and many other DAC manufacturers are unable to process the MQA decoding.
If you want lossless hidef PCM then you need to look at Qobuz and some others instead.
Yes, an important consideration which is why the Audioengine B-Fi seems attractive limited as it is to 16/44.1. Quobuz sadly isn’t available where I am yet to provide an alternative to MQA.
If you go Bluesound direct into Nait 5si then you would open up MQA (Masters) from Tidal. But then you’d be using the Bluesound DAC instead of the Chord DAC, which I suspect may be inferior so may not actually improve things!
Hi Simon, I have been reading about, and watching a few videos on a PI2AES “hat” for a RPi4 over the last couple of days. It seems like a real interesting product, have you seen or heard of these? They receive your music wirelessly, then connect to your DAC with any of the many connections available.
Seems like a very smart way to disconnect from the network, and any noise that comes with it. I might order one and give it a try, only a few hundred dollars. Anyone using one of these?
Hi… no not familiar with this in particular, but aware of various transports using Pi’s.
The clock and PSU regulation is typically important for top quality noise decoupling performance, and other than their recommended 24 volt powersupply I see no mention of these. Also it’s not clear what the transport supports.
But worth a try… and you can compare with a top flight streamer such as from Naim and choose which works for you.
Ahh but that is different… that is the sample bit stream DAC clock they would appear to be referring to… which just about all DACs do now provide themselves… and have done for many years.
They key thing is the transport clock precision… variability here creates noise energy that can (and effectively almost always does to varying degrees) couple into the DAC. Think of a FM transmitter. Hence why transport clocks in quality transports use high quality precision clocks.
It’s the same concept behind using audiophile Ethernet repeaters, with more stable serial line clocks. (Ie EtherRegen)
Great to see this topic evolving here. I have been into his for CD vs streaming for over 10 years now - and done really a lot of testing.
To summarize: streaming is unfortunately much more prone to problems as the CD workflow has been. What I highly recommend is a Audioquest Niagara 1200 or better 3000 with Z3 or higher for components - to isolate them from interfering between each other (and other benefits)
Network switching power supplies highly benefit from that setup and routers etc no longer have such a negative impact on DAC.
The fact that your room is terrible appears to have been overlooked and, if that is the case, and if you’re prepared to consider something other than Naim, I’d recommend listening to a Linn KDS, preferably a Katalyst version.
Available for “reasonable” money s/h and downright cheap as a Renew version, it doesn’t need an additional power supply, sounds pretty close to a decent spec LP12 and has the advantage of SO, allowing you to resolve the worst of your room issues.
Just when I thought I was set to try the Pi based solution as a cheap streamer solution, I read on head-fi that this guy uses 3 if I silencer+ in a row, which according to him
“ it makes virtually every laptop an audiophile transport”
These are 50 bucks a piece, so is this a better solution than the Pi ?
It never ends, always something better coming out daily it seems
I think they may have received an update. The iFi Audio iSilencer 3.0 looks different to that one.
I haven’t tried them or the Pi but I have tried the iFi Audio iPurifier3 - USB Purifier. That did make a difference, took away some of the digital edge and when paired with a decent USB cable performed very well. I have also heard positive reviews of using a iSilencer 3.0 at the laptop end and then the iPurifier 3 at the DAC.
In any event, try to get them from somewhere where you can return them if you’re not happy.
I’ve been demoing USB cables over this week and while all were good one is exceptional… but given it’s price tag it should be. The sound straight from a laptop was even extremely good and when using HQPlayer from the Laptop is at a standard I’d happily settle on. It sounded incredible on the Empyrean. In my main system it has performed to perfection.
The top two performers for me were Tellurium Q Ultra Silver and the Silver Diamond with the Silver Diamond been a clear end game winner. Not sure what they do with this cable… clearly not just a cable as there seems to be a passive device in it as well. Still a few days left but my mind is made up.
Yes I would say the streaming work flow is in my experience is slightly more involved than CD but less than phono for local on prem streaming.
For cloud streaming, it really is very simple and easy and akin to the workflow of radio. After all that is why cloud streaming is sooo popular by the masses.
What I have seen with streaming, is that it is so robust and easy that many feel they can have a fiddle and tweak and that fans a large market of tweaking paraphernalia and I suspect that is where problems are introduced. Message is keep it simple… just like most people do. I suspect forums like this inadvertently don’t help, as many like to share their tweaking experiences understandably but can give an impression of faux complexity. You don’t need to do any of it.
True audio streaming can show in adequacies in home networks, but I suspect that is a minority and most whether they stream or not have worked out out to at least have semi reasonable home wifi… even if it’s simply from their ISP router.
Not surprised. I sold the ones I had and now have the Roon NUC on an optical network, OpticalRendu into the TT2 then the Etude at the moment. M Scaler still on the sidelines as I play with the HQPlayer.
I’ve just moved from a Chord TT2 and Bluesound Node 2i to an NDX2. I prefer the latter, if you like the Naim sound you may too, plus it gives the options of PSU upgrades in the future should you feel the need.
Right, I’m back after many hours of experimentation! Tidal and Qobuz files from Roon.
I have been using:
DACs; Matrix Audio Sabre Pro, Ifi MQA Nano, Cambridge DacMagic, Teddy DAC.
Re-clockers/usb to spdif converters; Matrix Audio, Gustard U12, Teddy Pardo, Ifi something or other(can’t be arsed to get up and check its name).
Streamers; Sonore MicroRendu, Cambridge CXN v2, Raspberry Pi 4 (usb out), Raspberry Pi 3 with Allodigione Signature HAT spdif out.
Power supplies; Trichord NeverConnected, Teddy Pardo PS, Ifi ipower x, Ifi ipower standard, Naim Hicap, Nain SNAPS, Graham Slee top of the range.
That is a lot of possible combinations, think I’ve tried them all. Using all the inputs on my NAC 252/Scap DR I have been able to do plenty of A/B comparisons without the unplugging rigmarole.
And my main findings; they all sound very very much the same, apart from the POWER SUPPLY.
It certainly isn’t worth paying a fortune for a high end esoteric streamer (network bridge) because a Raspberry Pi 4 with a good power supply, plus a decent usb/spdif converter with a clean stable power supply sounds the same as anything else into a decent DAC.
There are slight audible differences between DACs, but in honest blind comparisons (wife selecting pre-amp inputs on the remote randomly) the difference between a 200 quid DAC and a 2000 quid DAC is embarrassingly minimal.
So my conclusion on this streaming malarky is to enjoy the frankly excellent choice of music and forget the gear.
Yes, and as theRPi4+ now has the Ethernet socket and USB socket on a separate power bus, I’m not sure how essential the external USB/spdif converter still is, but I’d do it if you have one.
