Naim has successful designs that deliver over the full bandwidth with high quality in both dimensions and with a fast rate-of-change. And even more important they have well-designed power supplies that stands up and provide a stable reference under these conditions - again over the full audio bandwidth. If the power supply cant hack it the rest (active amplifier circuit) doesnt matter.
It probably is fully possible to design speakers that hit some weakness in Naims designs. Or maybe it is the Naim power amp design that show up some weakness in the speaker. The answer is to avoid the combination - without careful analysis you dont know which is true.
And what I said is much the same (assuming music with reasonable dynamic range),
If you read what I wrote you’ll see I said no different. What I was clarifying was the mis-statement that Naim watts are different, identifying what is actually different compared to many other amps - as indicated in Naim’s own declared specifications.
I would not say watt ratings are meaningless, but they do not tell the whole story.
I had a NAD 375 Bee rated at 150 watts. I replaced it with a Naim 5i (2) rated at 50 watts. The little Naim was easily as, if not more powerful than the NAD. It sounded much better and had more bass than the NAD as well.
When I started this thread I wanted advise of a specific question. I wasn’t dogging Naims amp, I love my 500 I just think I probably made a questionable choice on the focal speakers due to the impedance drop to 1.7. Now I know just enough about that to be dangerous. There is a sterophile article on this speaker that talks about this issue with the speaker from 2016 and the power hungry characteristic of this speaker. That is what has always made me wonder about the need to change speakers. From this forum @Thomas seems to be the “impenance” expert (I mean that as a compliment). I really would like your advise on the amp with the Focal maestro uptopia speakers.
With all this concern above, I wanted to make sure the k10 didn’t have the same type of impedance drop but I can’t find anything on it. I know @ChrisBell didn’t buy the k10’s and opted for the k6 signature and sorta wondered why?
Looking at the specs of the big Magico M6s, you think, wow, I can drive that very easily with a Naim SuperNait 3.
Well, no, the truth is that you need a Naim Statement or Soulution 711 or 701, or equivalent.
But we can also accept to under-power the speakers. It will be a little bit messier in the low end of the spectrum. But the rest will be perfectly fine.
What is difficult is to determine the limit beyond which the amplifier starts to struggle.
It’s not Naim or Focal or Magico that will tell you. We need accurate measurements without manufacturer influence.
An example of this is HiFi Critic’s review of the Magico M2.
I chose the K6 because it was the right size for my room (and cost $25K less ) If I ever get my listening room built over my garage K10’s are on my upgrade list.
Stewart Tyler was a brilliant speaker designer. I describe my K6 Sig’s as Quads that make bass. Once you hear the ribbon tweeter it’s hard to go back. The sublime texture and detail can be intoxicating. And the bass performance made my previous speakers sounded anemic by comparison.
If shopping for a pair of speakers then a trip to a Naim dealer, perhaps more than one, and a dealer who has the 500DR as a stock item should be a No 1.
Not every speaker will be happy with a 500. Some from the US perhaps. With Naim and their conservative power ratings and dealer expertise you should be in safe hands.
I think this hits the nail on the head. Having the opportunity to read a review of speakers with lab reports is very helpful. I note that Martin Colloms found that the 500 couldn’t fully drive the M2’s in his very large room. When I bought ex demo B&W 802 d3’s I could read the lab reports in Stereophile and HiFi News. It was also fortunate that Jason Kennedy reviewed both the 802 d3 with one of the amps being the Nap 300 and the Nap 300 with one of the speakers being the 802d3! However, for some speakers, particularly the larger ones there are no proper reviews let alone reviews with lab reports. I asked my dealer why this was. He said it might be that one bad review could be terminal for that speaker.
I also wonder if there’s an inflexion point in the market for hi-fi whereby up to a certain point the consumer will drive kit selections (as most of us do around here) but if you go higher-end the dealers at this level will advocate much more powerful amps than Naim’s offerings (bar Statement of course).
Of course, then one needs to reflect on Naim’s active set-ups and how much power came with (say) a DBL/6x135 system, let alone a 3 x 500 set-up.
I don’t know many speaker brands, but I’ve looked into a few when I decide to change.
In the case of Focal or Magico, as soon as you enter their top range it seems that the manufacturer assumes that the amplification will always be up to the task, whatever the real needs of the speakers.
In the case of Magico, as soon as you enter the M series you need a really muscular amplification. And it would seem that, to some extent, this is the same for the Focal Utopia series.
There is a bit of an obsession ( not really a surprise) to mount a nap500 on the rear end of naims best gear.
And I too wanted to join the naim 250/300/500 club. But after a dem at my dealer this time last year was left feeling underwhelmed.
A great source from Linn, a 252/sc, 250/300 and even 500 into a pair of PMC 25 26i speakers was a lot disappointing. I wish now i could have humped along my much loved MF power amp for a direct comparison. But its 60kg plus weight is rather off putting.
I did so want the 300dr to send it packing. But not after that dem.
What was missing? The bass compared to my set up at home. I chose 5 well known ( to me) lps that i know will challenge a power amp.
I think increased power comes with the increase in quality of the amp (if that isn’t a technical truism around quality amps anyway). As you say, the higher-end is really about mono-blocks, often with bling!
Focal is interesting as the Be tweeter is very easy to power (hence very high sensitivity generally with their models). The rub comes with the bass units/performance, as when you apply more current/power, the impedance can dive. As you say, manu’s tend not to discuss ‘real world’ stuff – they leave that to reviewers and their often couched comments, which a reader is left to decode.
Personally I don’t believe an amp can ever be too big to drive a quality full range speaker. I’m at times stretching my 500 in my room SPL wise and of course it still sounds great, but I have no means on comparing to say a full Statement. Now have I got a friend here I could call…… ATB Peter
) If I ever get my listening room built over my garage K10’s are on my upgrade list.
ATB Peter