Enjoy the journey! Nice setup if I say so myself lol
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Thanks 
Know anyone that’s got same or similar 
I just need to get saving pennies for a PSU now
BW
R
p.s. just playing The National, “Day I Die”, from Sleep Well Beast.
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Definitely get a PSU on that nDAC, it transforms it.
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Take your time, let it all sink in. As @IainO says above, the PSU does transform the nDAC but it’s pretty damn good without it. I ran without a PSU for about a year while saving up for one.
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@IainO and @marcusman
Sure
Think I’m now at the stage of “saving up for one”.
And thanks to each of you, for the words of wisdom and encouragement in recent times.
KR
R
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A Digital Source Comparison
Well, just had some fun - Saturday morning listening - thinking about the two digital sources we have in our home.
So, listened to a sample of music, from ND5 XS2 and compared with Innous ZENmini mk3 S + LPSU.
Both used as transport only, with our existing nDAC, via two separate DC1 interconnects, etc.
Rest of system is nDAC → HiLine → SN3 + HCDR → NAC A5 → Epos ES14
Image : Music room - as it is currently - experimenting with lots of different boxes for now.
Background
Both are fine products, offering different features and functions…
We bought the ZENmini, to use with our other Naim Olive shoe boxes, to appear unobtrusive, and to allow access to an existing collection of CD’s. Just two small boxes, to do that. So, for us, the fact it is also a streamer (for internet music platforms) and Roon core too, is a bonus, in addition to our primary requirement.
We have had the ZENmini for about 18 months now. We’ve already established that it’s a remarkable thing, particularly when used with the nDAC. Which elevates SQ to quite a surprising impressive level. Even by itself, with internal DAC, it’s still pretty good.
Image : Innous ZENmini mk3 S + LPSU → nDAC → Naim Olive shoe boxes NAC72 + HC + NAP140
The ND5 XS2 will be used in a separate room and system. Longer term, we intend to use this with our nDAC external DAC. (Maybe eventually with an external PSU too). Again, aesthetics plays its part. We chose the ND5 XS2 to match the nDAC and SN3.
For this second room, our intention is to have a “best” approach to digital source(s). Along with a CD player. So the Naim streamer will play music from Qobuz + Roon. Plus, from the CD archive located on the ZM SSD server.
Image : Naim ND5 XS2 → DC1 → nDAC → HiLine → SN3, intended for a second system, separate room.
It’s just coincidence, we have these two items in the same room right now, just for fun.
Test tracks
Playing 30 or 60 seconds from a track, before switching back and forth (switching inputs on the nDAC) and replaying same sequence.
(1) Streaming : Qobuz + Roon
Maggie Rogers, Heard it in a Past Life (2019) : Alaska
( FLAC 96kHz / 24bit )
Talk Talk, The Colour of Spring (1986) ( 1993 remastered, hi-res version) : Life’s What You Make It.
( FLAC 96kHz / 24bit )
Jordan Rakei, What We Call Life (2021) : Family
( FLAC 44.1kHz / 24 bit )
(2) Streaming : from ZENmini SSD archive (ripped CD’s)
Kate Bush, Aerial (2005) ( 2018 remastered) : Nocturn
( FLAC 44.1kHz / 16 bit )
Trentemoller, The Trentemoller Chronicles (2007) : Always Something Better (Trentemoller remix)
( FLAC 44.1kHz / 16 bit )
Lo Moon, Lo Moon (2018) : Loveless
( FLAC 44.1kHz / 16 bit )
All FLAC files, a reasonable selection of diverse musical styles, in both HiRes and standard CD format. The latter being ripped CD’s archived on the ZENmini SSD storage.
Image : Roon UI, showing artist page for “Lo Moon” and access to their albums.
Findings
On this system, in this room, the two digital sources sound remarkably similar.
Both sources provide an incredible amount of detail and musical cohesion. The Naim edges it, just. Where the Naim gets a slight edge is more to do with weight of notes, ambience, space around the notes and sound stage. However, it took maybe 2 hours to get to that. It’s certainty not “night and day”.
On the basis of these finding, I wouldn’t necessarily choose the Naim streamer, over the ZENmini. As the ZM does so many other things too. It does a fine job, for the way we use it. We also like its diminutive shoe box size. But, more importantly, I don’t think the difference in SQ - by itself - is worth much.
My thoughts are this experiment says as much about the nDAC ( because the nDAC was doing the D to A conversion, for both devices) than it does anything about the two separate pieces, as sources.
Image : close up details for nDAC and SN3 fascia’s.
With more time, I would be tempted to maybe compare them again. To use them both (without the benefit of the nDAC), as stand alone items, using their respective internal D to A converters into the same system. I suspect there might be a very different outcome. My guess is the Naim streamer would do significantly better when used with its internal DAC. That’s a guess.
Conclusions
- The Naim ND5 XS2 and Innous ZENmini mk 3 S + LPSU were both used, as transport only, into a nDAC and compared, with several test tracks.
- As such, both streamers sound remarkably similar.
- The Naim streamer edges it. Just.
- This experiment says as much about the nDAC, as the two digital sources.
Not sure how relevant this might be for yourself, as you will most likely be using DAC V1, which will no doubt provide entirely different results.
Hope that all helps
Best wishes
R
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Great write up! Thank you Ratrat! I’m very happy with the improvement I got by adding the Innuos Zen Mini over the Dac V1. I too find the built in Dac in the Innuos to be good, but with the V1 I get a slightly nicer and funnier experience.
Great!
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Given that one was nearly double the price of the other last time I looked…
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Depends how you configure the ZENmini
In my case, it’s the more recent S version, with LPSU.
Around £2200 (for 1TB SSD ) v £2500
But the main finding was based on both sources used as transport, via the nDAC.
It seems the DAC becomes a key contributor.
edit (Nov23) : following recent Innous price rise, comparison is now £2550 (1 TB SSD) v £2500.
That’s when you purchase ZENmini mk3 S, 1TB SSD, c/w external LPSU as a package bundle.
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Quick update…
Not using the ZM much at the moment. (Although, still streaming - from - its SSD archive). Currently, using it more as Roon Core and archive for our CD collection, etc.
In recent weeks, we are using our new Naim ND5 XS2 streamer, while we get to know it.
We find that our listening has evolved in the nearly two years we have had the ZM and then more recently a Naim Streamer.
If anything, we are listening to more music. Probably, because it’s now so easy to search and play. But also, Roon helps open up musical journeys in two ways. First, you get to connect artists, albums and interconnected material, just by following connections, on screen. I really like this as it appears (to me) as the same organic journey when you start playing from your CD’s or Vinyl album collections. (For example, looking at credits - oh, didn’t realise that bass player was on that album… What else has he played, oh, look he also plays on that album too. And then that album gets played, etc). Also, Roon suggests same or similar music you might like. We have found lots of new bands and music in this way.
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My Zenmini is now used to stream my library via Roon to a selection of Naim devices but also as an endpoint to my Nait50 (via the ridiculously affordable SMSL SU1).
I know that Innuos’ own software could technically do the same but it misses that last mile ease of use that Roon offers. Plus the recommendations are wonderful
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I have a ZENMini mk3 and ZEN LPSU.
I’ve upgraded to a pretty good system now, CHORD DAVE and ATC SCM100ASLT.
I’m not unhappy with the Zen as a source. Where would I have to go to have a substantially better source /server / streamer ?
Zen, Zenith w/SSD, or either of these with perhaps a Phoenix NET switch as well ?
That’s my budget, so the Statement is out.
I did think about Melco, but I’m so used to the simple but effective way Innous user / ripper and interface works.
You will definitely notice an improvement moving up the Innuos range. I went from zen mini with psu to pulse to pulsar and each one is an improvement. Having had the phoenix for a couple of weeks I would describe it as essential in my system at least!
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Have you considered Pulse or Pulsar ?
Only yesterday, I listened to Pulse → nDAC + 555PS (whilst at my dealer), and thought that to be a very capable solution.
I’d be tempted to try the Pulsar, with the Dave.
Maybe keep the ZM, used as Roon Core (or just with Sense) to stream any CD archive.
Good luck
R
I haven’t, I’m a bit of a NOOB in regards to streaming, serving etc.
I quite like the idea of an all in one unit that does it all.
Rips CD’s, stores on SDD and serves to a DAC etc.
Like most things in hifi though, separating these jobs to dedicated units is usually the best sound quality way to go.
The big jump, in my experience, is separating the DAC from the streamer, which you have already done. It’s possible to spend large sums of money on further server uprades, but we’re talking about small incremental gains that cost thousands, which makes them pretty poor value in my books. Others will have a different take on this of course.
I’m not sure how much of a compromise it is to put the ripper in the same box. I imagine it could degrade sound quality if you are ripping/downloading/editing during playback, but I can’t see it being a problem when these parts are idle.
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Having compared the full Innuos server range, I felt the Zenith was very much the sweet spot. The Statement was obviously better but at 3-4 x the price, it was more than I’d budgeted for at that stage.
I’d recommend going with a Zenith and demo both the PhoenixNet and M Scaler, you’ll probably want both but it’ll help you decide which one first.
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I ended up with a Zenith mk3, should arrive to my dealer early next week.
The Innuos isn’t that clear in the manual, what is the easiest way import all my ZENMINi mk3 music over go the Zenith ?
Just get a USB>USB cable and import that way ? Or do it via Ethernet cable and the NAS Option.
I also wouldn’t mind making the music into WAV files again, they are in FLAC format currently.
I’m unsure how to do this, I “hope” it’s in menu somewhere when I do the transfer over from my ZENMINI.
And I’m pretty sure that I can also do a transfer from my iPhone of the iTunes songs that I have purchased. Like the very hard to find singles that I cannot get on CD anymore. Some I can’t even find on Tidal or Qobuz when I was trialing those services.
It doesn’t need to be in the instructions as it’s all within Sense. If you backed up your Mini then plug that into the Zenith via USB; hit restore from backup and the job is done.
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Good morning @Seacat77
Congratulations…
I’m sure you will be more than happy with the ZENith. It’s a great piece of kit.
Did you consider or demo’ any other options, like the ZEN or the Pulsar (streamer only )?
Just curious if you had any thoughts on comparisons and how you arrived at the ZENith.
Best wishes
R