You can hear what you measure but you can’t always measure what you hear. Why do you think companies like Naim and Chord make final decisions based on what they hear?
2 Likes
A streamer is a computer, correct? A mac mini or a roon nucleus is also a computer, correct?
However, I have never heard anyone using an ER/boutique Ethernet cable against a Roon Nucleus / NUC+Roon Rock or a Mac Mini? Why?
Or perhaps they would deny their value until they start selling them
1 Like
It could be useful to clarify what they meant by just not ethernet cable
Did they mean:
The extra investment in your system would be much better spent elsewhere, such as on upgrading the cables in your system, just not [on] ethernet cable
(That is, don’t waste your money on an Ethernet cable)
Or did they get ‘just’ and ‘not’ around the wrong way, and intended to say:
The extra investment in your system would be much better spent elsewhere, such as on upgrading the cables in your system, [not just] ethernet cable
That is, spend money on other cables as well as Ethernet cables
Kind of sounds a bit sinister and underhand, not normally attributes I associate with Naim.
I shortened the last bit down a bit, so probably i have introduced confusion.
But dCS basically say, spending money on better power cables and interconnects will make a difference.
Ethernet cable, special audio switches wont, just make aure you have a good reliable connection
Why don’t you don’t believe it is possible for a manufacturer to build in sufficient isolation/blocking to prevent electrical noise from a network getting into the DAC, when a switch or cable can apparently change the amount of noise sufficient to make a difference?
3 Likes
And here’s the story about digital USB cables. Not sure why a cable managing digital signal according to Paul would make a huge difference and a switch that manage digital signals would make no difference at all.
Indeed and has been said many times, the majority of interaction with network devices and cables is with analogue electro magnetic influences, not the the derived digital signals. USB and Ethernet are very similar in this regard.
I’m not sure I follow what that means in the context between a switch and a USB cable? 
It’s the same thing… usb cables and Ethernet cables use similar constructs (duplex or half duplex twisted pair cables) and have the same consideration of analogue voltages circulating. (Electrical noise!)
So a switch is a like a usb hub (either internal within a device or external), and a usb cable is like an Ethernet cable.
So… the difference most people find with say the EE8 could be the better Chord ethernet cable attached to it and not that much the box itself?
Maybe it was really just that it was around and/or by the relationship with Chord, and when you asked about it the answer simply meant “it’s a working ethernet cable, so why not”
The Rock does not have a DAC that could be influenced by the mythical RF noise
Have you considered that the people who do report a difference generally tend to be from the older crowd? There might be a paradox there? They are likely to have more hearing loss right? Perhaps we should do a survey on this, it could produce interesting results.
But is there any proof that this happens, to a considerable degree, so to an extent that it actually influences the sound?
Do we have evidence that a standard switch is not galvanically isolated well enough to prevent audible noise coming into a streamer/DAC? Same for a standard UTP cable?
Do we have evidence that a Naim streamer/DAC is not isolated well enough to prevent audible interference in the output stage from EM noise coming in through the ethernet port?
1 Like
thanks @Suedkiez for your explanation, how about a device such as a Mac Mini or a Roon Nucleus? They are in effect the streamers.
The Nucleus is the same as a Rock, it does not do digital-to-analog conversion, it reads a digital file and sends the digital data to the endpoint. It’s the endpoint where the DAC is and where such an RF interference would occur (if it exists at all!).
In the Mac Mini example, it depends how it is used. If used as a Roon server, it’s the same. If its DAC is used, then it’s different
Having worked out the ‘directionality’ of the C-Stream I retried it at the weekend from EE8 to NDX2. The BJ Cat-6a was back in in an hour. No contest.
G
As far as i know, some people actually use the USB output from a Mac Mini and a Roon Nucleus.
Not sure that RF noise is mythical, but yes, what matters in particular is what reaches the DAC - and all computers - including those that are inside all streamers (such as Naim’s and Linn’s) produce RF noise, whether or not the same frequency range as the network might pick up. A DAC stage, inside a streamer or stand alone, may be afffected by that noise superimposed on the digital music stream, unless adequate blocking is in place or otherwise the DAC design preventing. Some DACs are very susceptible to RF on the electrical inputs e.g Hugo1, needing an isolator in the path from a computer, while others, e.g Dave, I understand have been designed from the outset to minimise RF susceptibility. Whether a computer itself might reduce the amount of any RF from an attached network reaching the output to the DAC I gave no idea, but I don’t think is inconceivable.