opus,
I’m not familiar with the site - do you have a direct link to the article please?
Regards
Richard
Sorry I don’t. I’m afraid you’ll have to google around. I can at least give you the story. When PSA came out with their original DirectStream Dac it had a really good digital volume control (still does) Paul McGowen swore up and down, how can adding an active preamp couldn’t improve things. After much listening and discussion on the PSA forums he tried an ARC Ref 5 , I think it was. He was very surprised at the uplift in SQ, later on he bought an Aesthetix preamp.
I tried to duck the purchase of a preamp by trying some of the Chord dacs directly into a Naim power amp. Last try was with Dave directly into a Nap 300 dr. Yes you got music, but was,lifeless and not musical. Put a nac252 in between Dave and the nap300, and it-all came to life, wonderful…except for the bank balance. But its always worth a try, did not cost anything to demo, so why not.
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Not that I tried to duck the purchase of my preamp… but my experience exactly. There is a reason why the NAC552 is considered one of the best preamps in the world 
On a Naim system I totally concur with the general perceived Naim wisdom, the NAC is the heart of the system and brings everything else along with it.
My advice is get the best NAC you can afford, you will likely find your tinkering, upgrade itch days are behind you once you get the right NAC.
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Linn pre-amp/streamer design white paper - https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/evolution-of-the-pre-amp.pdf
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Quinn_MIT,
Having watched the Linn video I am aware of this ‘white’ paper and it is partly behind why I want to try this.
I have cobbled together a cable to give me two phono plugs to a 4pin DIN plug and switched off/ disconnected the 4 pin to 4pin DIN lead from the Supercap powering the NAC52 and connected this 4 pin DIN direct into Socket 5 of the Supercap powering the SNAXO.
I get a low level hum from the system so stopped at that point. I think I will need to try again but cut the -ive connection as I strongly suspect this is an earthing issue.
Anybody like to comment?
Regards
Richard
Even Nagra recommends a pre although their DAC has volume control. I phoned Nagra’s distribution here and they confirmed. The pre amp is the heart they say even if one has only one source to connect (my situation)…
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I think it depends.
Now there are some digital sources that have excellent digital volume controls, starting from the audioquest dragonfly red all the way to Chord Hugo and Chord Dave. They do work.
However when it comes to an amplifier accepting this, a Naim amplifier was designed to be separate preamp and power amp, other than the Naits and Uniti models.
For Linn - cannot comment much, but driving their own active speakers from a chord Dave directly wasn’t as engaging as when their own Klimax Kontrol preamp was slotted in the middle. I would need to repeat this experiment a few more times to be sure.
However in a demo, with their own KDS, removing the preamp didn’t result in a major such a difference, one could call it either it either way. They sounded different to me. Again it was a very short demo, and I would need to repeat this a few times to be sure.
I prefer to use things the way they were designed, if a manufacturer like Linn and Chord say for example that a Chord Dave can drive a Chord power amp directly I won’t argue and will use it like this.
But for Naim they have never said this, and I will continue to use their preamp with their power amp.
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Exactly… well summarised.
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Respectfully no manufacturer (other than Linn) is going to tell you that you don’t need to buy their pre-amplifier are they?
There is nothing to be lost by trying it out and then making your own decision is there???
After all once upon a time people believed the Earth was flat and didn’t question it!
Regards
Richard
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Doesn’t the V1 DAC connect to a power amp without the need for a pre-amp.
Indeed it does but that is because it has its own Naim pre-amp built into it.
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As the originator of the linked thread I confess I tried a Hugo2 Dac to NAP 250DR direct. It ‘worked’ ok but I never felt the 250 was being controlled well.
A move to NDX2 + 282 was/is much more satisfying…ime.
G
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The V1, despite having no analogue inputs, has an analogue preamp of sorts, with pre out as well as line out, and an analogue volume control
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The idea that there’s a signal containing everything that is needed and adding any other box into the chain will make the sound worse is wrong.
That’s where you are tripping yourself up.
E.g. adding a Cisco switch can improve the sound by helping to improve the timing and alignment of the audio files before they are processed by the dac.
I don’t have Roon, but adding a Roon box improves SQ for many users.
Etc.
JimDog,
I haven’t stated it WOULD make the SQ worse, I’m interested to find out if there is a difference and then decide which I think is best.
Remember the old Quad advert describing the perfect amplifier as being a piece of wire with gain?
Regards
Richard
Yes, I know that one.
I held to that notion - that less is more - until a couple of years ago, when I found an improvement in sq from adding a switch.
I should have known better as I studied neuropsychology as an undergrad. And I worked for BT.
In information networks, the most minimal is rarely the best, (although that too is a generalisation).
I guess the ‘right’ way round is to try it yourself, as you plan to do, arrive at a conclusion, and then post about that conclusion. Asking beforehand simply gets people trotting out their personal beliefs, sometimes based on real experience and sometimes simply their own guesswork.
People, even some ‘respected’ reviewers use Naim power amps with other preamps, including passive ones such as the Allegri, or with dacs that have their own volume control.
If you want the full ‘Naim sound’ it makes sense to use Naim pre and power together, as they are literally two halves of the whole. But if you prefer something else then that’s fine too. I’ve always understood that the pre defines the operating environment for the power, so if the pre is eliminated that environment will be a different one, for better or for worse. It will be a mongrel but hey, mongrels are healthier than most pure breeds.
I have owned a Klimax DS since 2011 and have had versions /1, /2, and/3. While the Linn forum was still active there was a good amount of debate which took place for several years about Linns decision to discontinue the Klimax Kontrol (their preamp) and integrate its functionality within the DSM. I would say that a majority on the Linn forum felt the KDS outperformed the KDSM version. This is despite the fact that Linn and it’s white paper maintained that the performance was equal between the two.
Best
Gregg
My observations (!..auditory ones, that is), only, but…
Many Linn owners, myself included, prefer music through our Klimax Kontrol (fully updated) over the DVC in the KDS (kat). Others might disagree, but it’s easy to do the experiment.