Is an NDS the best way to go for me

Hi-Fi Corner
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Back in the Naim fold after a few months away scratching the itch that made me want to try valves and am looking to an end game system now that the dallying around is done with

I’ve recently bought a NAC82 and hopefully have a NAP180 arriving in the next week or so, speakers are some Devore clones I built myself and on the long term horizon is a NAC52 with NAP500

Although I still like physical media, and CD is my chosen form, I’ve found getting anything modern/reliable with the Naim sound signature I prefer a bit of a challenge so am thinking I’ll go back to an NDS

I currently have a notional £5k budget to cover the NDS and a 555PS, this may in time evolve into an ND555 when everything else is in place and depsnding upon technology at that point in time, but is the NDS solution the best step currently, and what are the alternatives?

Musical tastes are pretty board but don’t venture into jazz or classical and my preferred sound signature is definitely that of, or similar to, my previous Naim sources of CDX2/CDS/CDS2/CDS3 and an NDS. Don’t mind streaming or CD and transport/DAC combos are absolutely acceptable but the rabbit hole of vinyl is definitely off the agenda as I just can’t afford to start allover agin buying LPs

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Tricky. I wonder whether getting an NDX2 might be better. The functionality is much better than the NDS, as it has Qobuz and high res Tidal and continues to be updated. I’d tend to skip the 180 and get an Olive 250. The 250 is so much better at controlling speakers. You then have the flexibility to add a 555 if you want to at a later stage. Another option, that may just squeeze into the budget, is the New Classic NSS 333.

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You can pick up a secondhand ND5XS2 for under 2K. To my ears at least, it’s a wonderful streamer that concedes little to the NDS and NDX2 (although other opinions are available).

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True, I hadn’t factored in the NDX2 believing it was slightly behind the NDS in sound quality terms, this being more important to me that functionality at this point but the entry pointt cost wise is considerably lower when factoring in the 555 on the NDS

Hadn’t considered the NSS333 wither, but that’s a good call as they come to the secondhand market. I habem’t one yet though however the opportunity might come next week when I visit the Acoustica show

Thanks for the suggestions, very helpful and mikron food for thought

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Well…

I went from 82 to 52 and much more recently 552. I also went from 140 to 250 a long time ago, and more recently to 300DR.

I also have ND5XS2 (usually in a system with 82/HC/250) and NDX2 with XPSDR (in the big system). We had a big session playing with all the options with all the boxes a couple of years ago.

To us, ND5XS2 is good enough for the 82, with NDX2 only modestly better. On the 52, the 2 sources were much more easy to distinguish, and adding the XPSDR (inaudible to us with 82) was a worthwhile upgrade of using the 52.

It is also worth bearing in mind that many rate ND5XS2 plus a a/h Naim nDAC as just as good as an NDX2, and it too can be upgraded with a separate PS for the DAC.

Both ND5XS2 and NDX2 use a newer steaming platform than the NDS - am mentioned above, that has benefits.

Given all that, I’d suggest thinking about what system you expect to have in 2 or 3 years and then trying to minimise how boxes you’ll be putting on eBay as you move from today’s system to your target system.

For max SQ per £, I’d vigorously agree with @HungryHalibut that the power amp should be a 250, serviced within the last 10 or 15 years, nothing less - that will work well with 82/HC, 82/SC or 52/SC. Both 140 and 180 lead inexorably to a 250 and Hicap imho.

For source, I’d get a s/h ND5XS2 to feed 82/Hicap/250. Given your comments on CDs, I’d probably look to add an Audiolab CD transport.

Depending on what secondhand bargains come along when you are ready to look, the next upgrades would probably be 52, then nDAC, then a PS for the nDAC.

If you want a screen and a remote control, then stretch to an NDX2 instead of an ND5XS2 - you probably won’t need an nDAC in that case (though some like it), but the PS would still be a good upgrade if and when you want - as long as you have a 52 by then.

If all that looks like far too many boxes, the NC range may have just what you want, but at a price.

Good luck!

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Great Summary NickofWimbledon !!

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NDS+555PSDR is to my ears better than NDX2+555PSDR. I added a Limetree Bridge II to my NDS to get all latest support and it sounds amazing. This means I use my NDS as a DAC only. But it is a wonderful DAC for sure. Limetree bridge use streaming unlimited streaming board just like Naim do in their latest streamers/dacs.

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Again, an option that I had discarded previously but given the ND5XS2 comes in at around the same price as the NDS bare its a very cost effective step to getting up and running then considering future upgrades as they come along, thanks

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I use an NDS/555DR but with an Innuos server. The sense app is excellent, prefer it to the Naim app and you have stored files and Qobuz integration negating the need for the latest platform.

I find the NDS has a nice analog sounds and whilst the ND555 is marginally better not enough to justify the cost difference….

The NDS is still a top digital source and excellent VFM

Gary

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The NDS with 555PS is superb. I had this for years. I changed to NDS with ND5XS2 and 555PS which was more reliable and meant less drop outs and being able to use Qobuz.

I now have ND555 which is a lovely machine. I think for the price an NDS with ND5XS2 and 555PS is hard to beat.

If you don’t need the functionality or reliability of modern streaming platform then NDS and 555PS is brilliant.

Many have found workaround options with NDS to have latest streaming functiinality.

The ND5XS2 is not as good as an NDS with 555PS at all. Although it’s an excellent machine it is a lower level machine. I used it bare when my NDS was being repaired.

The NDX2 is not as good as the NDS in terms of sound quality but is a good middle ground between the ND5XS2 and ND555, and so it should be.

Naim normally price their products according to quality. Make no mistake the NDS was once top of the range, and with 2 x 555PSDRs sounds very similar to the ND555. The ND555 has latest streaming platform, is better built, servicable and nice screen and remote.

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Devore speakers are very easy to drive. A Nap 180 will be fine.

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+1 for the NDS with 555PS. Excellent DAC. Hard to beat for SQ. Must be because of the floating boards and a set of springs.

I use Innnuos Pulse as transport with all the benefits of modern platform. Still, I switch between Sense app and Naim app quite often. The Sense is great for Tidal and local server, Naim app is very convenient for multiroom and volume control (via NDS to pre-amp automation). All the choices at my fingertips… No need to change anything.

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Is the sound better for local streaming when using the Pulse vs bare Nds?

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If you can live with the limitations of the old streaming platform, the NDS/555 is still a great option - but you’ve owned one before so you already know that. If you’re searching the used market an NDAC/555 would be a good alternative. Although I have a soft spot for the latter, I would say that it’s different rather than better. More rock&roll, whereas the NDS is smoother and more refined.
Put an ND5XS2 in front of the NDAC and you have the advantages of the new streaming platform as long as you can cope with a 3 box source.

Personally I would rate these two options above all other Naim streamers by quite a margin, except for the ND555.

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I suspect some of the parts/boards in the NDS may soon go down the “Superline path” - unavailable or too fragile to repair. The NDS/555PS will undoubtedly sound better than an NDX2 until then, if you can live with the more limited streaming limitations.

If the NDS is a stepping stone to a 555 then go for it but if it’s a permanent solution, I’d probably go (and did go) with the NDX2.

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Hi Chris
Good to see you back in the fold.
I am going to try and attend the Acoustica show next week as well on the Sunday.
Maybe see you there
Jim

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An alternate view. If a 52 is your preferred destination for a pre-amp (and that is a fine idea as someone who likes the older Naim sound such as the magical CDS3) then I’d take my time finding a good one before changing source. 82 to 52 is a big change in quality, and also character to a degree. It really would be an idea to be changing the source after the pre-amp in my view to make sure it all sings together. The preamp has a big role in that final result despite the ‘source first’ mantra.

Make sure your 52 is a good one, serviced and tested etc. I know you have only just bought the 82 but a good 52 is…very good.

As for the NDS functionality issues, these only really matter if you are intending streaming as your primary access to music. If like me you are ripping CDs and downloads to a NAS then perhaps not a problem.

I’d have a nice serviced olive 250 too.

Bruce

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Thanks, its good to be back

Definitely, it would be good to say hi, I’ve gone through the usual phone changes etc so if you still have my contact details could you drop me a line?

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I found the NDS / 555 a material upgrade v NDAC/NDX555

Gary

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Maybe, that is a possible concern but unlike CD players I don’t think there are moving parts in there and the only issues I’ve heard of are the screens needing replacement

I do think the ND5XS2 is a great shout though and that’s where I’m currently thinking of to head, this does remove part of that worry and also gets me up and running with a single box, opening many different ways to get to the ND555 in the future with more options to try other days etc on the journey

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