Not claiming anything, just saying I’d be surprised.
My thoughts are simply based on the construction of the Frame, which in my opinion is nothing special when compared to other makes at half the price, one can always add the triangles and balls for little cost like I have done.
However it is a bold claim to say a Frame is required for optimum performance, do you have any data to prove this or do you believe everything the Naim marketing tell you ?
Fraim. As in Naim. Not Frame. As in Zimmer.
Was spelling it the same way as Pete , thought he was the expert…
If you do decide to stack your kit, just take a pause before posting pictures of it on the System Pics thread. A number of people here might need medical attention as a result, and you don’t want that on your conscience.
Mark
Hot air aside, Fraim or just a frame
It’s ok to even stack your Naim
Whatever you do, don’t suffer in shame
It’s often … indeed, System Pictures to blame
It’s also worth checking an OP’s profile or asking them what kit they actually
have. Also where someone is located in the world has a bearing on availability and cost of kit.
There once was a man from Salisbury
Who stacked up his Naim in a hurry
He inquired from the Forum
But there was no quorum
Which caused him a great deal of worry.
I’ll get me hat and be going…
As for my spelling mistake I guess it was just that. Or else I really beleive it is Frame. You decide.
I have no real idea what you mean by the construction of Fraim being nothing special when compared to other makes at half the price. You mention though the ‘triangles and balls’. Perhaps this though is what you think makes Fraim special after all? Especially since you seem to be implying that ‘adding’ them (to another rack presumably?) will achieve something. A very odd thing to do. To attempt to emulate the construction of a rack which you claim has nothing special and which you assert will not sound any better in any case. So what’s the point in trying to emulate it?! Extremely odd.
I have owned Fraim myself in the past and I can attest to it’s superior performance with Naim kit compared to other makes of rack I have used. Of course I have not owned all makes of rack so I can’t rule out the possibility that somewhere there exists a superior alternative. However many people on this forum use Fraim and they agree that it is superior to alternatives. Exactly what do you mean by ‘data to prove this’?
I don’t beleive everything that Naim marketing tell me. But neither do I disbelieve it without grounds for doing so.
I wonder if you would still think Fraim was no better than alternatives if it was in fact sold for half the price that it is? You see I suspect that you would think it was in fact better, as you seem keen to try to make your own rack more 'Fraim-like" by adding cups and balls to it. Why on earth would you do this if you believe that the results will be no better?
These are my thoughts as well. Better to order a cheap, but solid, rack from Amazon that will sufice until you can do it better. For SQ, and also for care of the kit.
In the 80’s it was not unusual to just stack the Naims on top of each and other things like the Ikea Lack. And for the LP12 and eventual CD-player the Lack was modified to act more as a filter. That was also my arrangement when not just having them directly on the floor.
And both Linn and Naim gained marketshare anyway - so apparently you didnt lose what was important. Then came Mana and Sound Organisation. Naim used Hutter.
The above is simplified but not that far away. A Fraim is demanding on setup, change and use, especially with non-Naim equipment mixed in. And it has a complex structure of weight, wood, glass, balls and spikes that I suspect is holding back certain aspects of the sound.
And, yes, I own two Fraim-racks.
It’s certainly true that Fraim has a complex structure that is demanding on set-up etc. This, amongst other things, is why I moved away from it. I wanted a simpler alternative. I can’t help but feel that as good as Fraim is in performance terms it’s complexity is not a very elegant or user-friendly solution.
The need to periodically completely dismantle and rebuild it in order to maintain peak performance is to me quite ridiculous. I know that some people periodically, say once a year, completely strip down and rebuild their entire system but again to me it is ridiculous. I would only ever do this if I needed to say for room decoration or if I noticed an obvious deterioration in performance. Otherwise I have better ways to spend my time. When I had my big Naim system some years ago now it pretty much stayed untouched for 17 years, save for a few upgrades!
Personally If I had a 202/200 and Cdx bare, I would not pay for a rack which costs the same or even more than the system.
as others have said I would try and always ensure NAIM or for that any HIFI equipment is placed on a quality stable surface to allow air flow, and yes a dedicated HIFI rack is always going to be the best solution for ease of access for set up connections etc, if you can also sepetate out any power supples from the more delicate source compoments
as for my own personal experience, did I purchase FRAIM to start with no, but it was Quadapire Q$ and then after a few years and moreover I thought my system would benifit from FRAIM i did get FRAIM
in this owners experience it is like adding another black box in to your system
Stack the NAC112x on the NAP150x, no problems on SQ/noise.
I agree that ‘full’ Fraim seems to be quite fiddly, which is exactly why I went for FraimLite, which is a complete doddle to build and set up - easier, in fact, than many IKEA flatpacks I’ve built. Oh, and it’s a jolly sight cheaper, too, so that made it one of my easiest system-related decisions ever.
As for annually stripping and reassembling being compulsory (as opposed to just forum advice), I’m not sure I’ve ever seen Naim state this but I’m sure someone will correct me within about four minutes if I’m wrong. Personally, I strip and rebuild my system about annually, but this is mainly to clean connections and hoover up all the dust bunnies. If it gives my FraimLite’s performance an uplift (other than the psychosomatic one I get from knowing it’s cleaner), I’ve never noticed. Apart from the first rebuild after about six months, I’ve never noticed anything having worked loose either.
I therefore can’t help wondering how much such things are part of forum mythology.
Mark
Add my vote to those saying you don’t ‘have to’ do anything!
A. Stacking leaves marks unless you take care, gives a lot of loose cable and may encourage things getting hot if there is not much space. But, if it sounds good, it’s ok.
B. Using a book case, sideboard or whatever may well sound and look a bit better to you – it’s plenty good enough for many here.
C. Using a not-expensive rack may well sound a bit better than that to you, but this may well be room and system and ear-specific, and it is all too easy to judge the sound with your eyes.
D. Using a better rack – exactly the same comments apply. And IMHO the Fraim certainly fits in the ‘better rack’ category.
E. A few here have found they could even improve on a Fraim – usually with something massive or with extra isolation (rubbery feet, isolation platforms, lumps of wood etc). This is even more likely to be room/ system/ listener-dependent, and many will maintain that we are by now well into the territory in which most perceived changes are all in our heads.
Personally, I am in category E at home. However, I am building a new hi-fi for a holiday cottage, and that will sit on something non-dedicated and made from exciting local wood for the simple reason that we live in rooms – we don’t just assess hi-fi in them. I don’t expect to spend any time wondering after it’s installed whether a Fraim would be better.
As for ‘data to prove all this’, good luck! There are entire threads here and on PFM discussing isolation and more generally how to measure what in any useful way, who should be doing what research, whether how it sounds to the listener is a useful measure of anything (yes really) and to what extent the whole thing is ‘in the mind’ of the listener only.
Finally, I should say that I have done some experimenting with Naim cups and balls. Using them with non-Naim glass on a non-Naim rack was actively nasty to listen to. However, I am confident that they work on a Fraim. My guess is that Naim did quite a bit of R&D to make the unit as a whole work well.
I think this is a key issue. Many people here seem to fall into the trap of using a glass shelf with Naim cups and balls in the belief that it will emulate Fraim. However the Fraim design is an overall concept including many other elements so the effect is quite different.
I fall into the not expensive rack camp. I managed to get hold of one of the last veneered Podium racks a few years ago for a bargain price. I wouldn’t consider the current solid oak ones nowadays (mine look exactly the same mind). I built DIY a two shelf rack for my 135s as they were stacked previously. Definitely improved both the soundstage and focus. Well that’s what I noticed and the fans don’t come on as often. Just during heatwaves now. I do admit to having a bamboo chopping board under the LP12 though (I shouldn’t have said that) 
Only a bamboo chopping board? You won’t be top of the hardliner’s hit-list.
I was happy with my Target wall shelf for 30 years but wondered whether could improve the sound at all. Much experiment led to an odd stack - from the bottom, it’s a chunk of granite, then rubbery feet from HRS than laminated (not Naim) glass, the the LP12. That’s along way from anything ‘light and rigid’. It was a little better than the standard shelf, but consistently so. Granite was definitely better than wood to me.
As of yesterday, that’s all gone. Now there is just Target, then glass (I’ll try the original Target MDF again in a few days), then SRM’s platform, then LP12. It looks better to me (though my girlfriend disagrees) and sounds the same as the stack did to us (so still better than just Target) and better than using the top of a Fraim.
SRM to us certainly beats just wood, granite, Naim cups-and-balls and other platforms. My LP12 is naked underneath (I really don’t like Tramps) but we’ll try the SRM base too.
The rack for all the boxes is spiked, with oak legs and granite shelves. I often play play loud and have a bouncy floor…
You can go with these things as far as you want; but, if it takes several hours of listening tests with 6 ears to be sure that you are not imagining the difference, that may be further than seems sane to many.
Now for the biggest heresy! I have heard several record clamps on LP12s and agreed with conventional wisdom - they make it worse. However, I was encouraged to try the SRM clamp for suspended decks, which is just another rubbery anti-vibration thing rather than a real clamp. It’s annoying and I don’t like the look but we all had to admit that it does sound just that little bit better.
When I have heard the SRM baseboard (a step that will require swapping to a less warped plinth), we’ll fit it or not. Then I’ll post a picture of the result (with clamp) on the ‘Show Us Your Sondek’ thread and wait for comments!
If you don’t want to go Fraim, full or half fat, you’ll find Quadraspire is your friend.