the buzzing is mechanical.
DSP for room correction has significant limitations: in particular it can never remove a null where there is frequency cancellation, and to try to make it do so is potentially a rapid path to speaker destruction. It also can do nothing about reflections muddying the sound. For these reasons care with speaker and listening position placement, and possibly room treatment, can be crucial for a good sound. But once they are the best that can practically be achieved (in what is often a living room as opposed to a dedicated listening room), then DSP may well be able to improve further.
The thing I find a bit odd is when people spend tens of thousands of £ on a system, but do nothing at all to optimise or treat the room - the room is as much a part of the system as any other component.
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@Innocent_Bystander, have you ever listened to the Linn SO turned on or off? Or you make your own comment above based on what you think you know?
Remember that Linn have more than 20 years of fine-tuning their SO algorithm, don’t you think they would not know what they are doing?
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Absolutely right - it’s mechanical and annoying if you have a loud buzzer that you need to power up day and night.
An optional DC offset filter may help and may be something Naim could sell. PowerLine with DC offset filter? Corian shelf for Fraim? Their rivals used very advanced quiet SMPSs that don’t buzz. One thing a potential customer (e.g. me) prefers: OK a sample of one is not significant, but … worth a thought.
One thing that hasn’t been stated yet, although I did mention several years back on the old forum, is that with WAV in particular, there are two file formats applicable for CD. There is the legacy ‘canonical’ format which is simply the header (fmt) and data chunks and the later ‘extensible’ format that is required for greater than 16 bits, multi channel and other requirements. The header / fmt chunk is slightly different between the two. Different rippers create these different formats.
From memory iTunes created the canonical format for example and dbpoweramp creates the extensible format … (though I haven’t checked recently).
So although with streamed data there should be no difference, as the protocol is changed from the WAV file to UPnP media streaming, and the media is (should be ) identical for both formats … for a hard disk player it is entirely possible these different WAV formats may sound slightly different as different libraries or routines may be used by the player to parse these different formats.
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I’m not suggesting folk do not pay attention to correct system setup and speaker positioning, but DSP as in Linn DSMs is quite superb and improves my enjoyment of music far more than moving to valve amplifier (something I tried and gave up on years ago) or adding PSUs to Naim pieces ever did.
I am fortunate in my dealer knew how to configure Space Optimisation V2 perfectly for my room, but if you follow the instructions, pay attention to detail and get the room construction information correct then it makes a very worthwhile improvement.
As with all these things, I would never suggest it was something anybody must use, but I do think it would be a useful option for Naim and a selling point. Linn did it as a free upgrade, by releasing enhanced FPGA code, which users could install (worked first time as well). I don’t use folder view in J-River MC, but I’d never suggest removing it.
I think there is another company contemplating an option to repurpose the FPGA in its DAC for owners of its wonderful M-Scaler so users no longer had to rely on J-River DSP Studio for room correction.
Interestingly Naim does some fantastic DSP room correction for Bentley owners (I’m not one and never likely to be, but they used to be great cars). So, why not capitalise on this investment for its other customers?
If you have the time configure and load up a room correction Audio Unit in Audirvana then you’ll get a feel for how good DSP can be. If you don’t like the improvement, it’s easy to revert.
For vinyl replay, Linn’s Urika II with Space Optimisation V2, is as good as I have heard. It does more than room correction. Streaming through a Linn DSM Katalyst is every bit as good as Chord DAVE though adding M-Scaler tips the balance.
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I would assume these 2 formats had different MD5 hashes. The files that were reported to sound different had the same MD5s.
Well clearly a MD5 hash of these files will be different, as the fmt chunk is different.
If the MD5 hash of the complete files are the same, then the files are identical unless being carefully manipulated and corrupted to exploit the now known vulnerabilities with the MD5 algorithm.
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SStock,…Short answer,.Yes.!!
I have written about this earlier,.and also have put out pictures that Linn have produced.
According to Linn,.the pictures should show the benefits of Space Optimization.
However,.if you think about it,and understand a little about acoustics and proper music-system installation…so you draw completely different conclusions.
Simplistically,.this is modern equalizers,did you like them at the end of the 1970’s so go ahead and buy them 
.
This is “Good Enough” not Top Notch,.I’m not rude but just notes the facts.
And yes,.we have tested this on the largest active Linn-systems.
Then we talk…
•Active Exact Linn Klimax 350.
•Active Exact Linn Komri etc,etc.
I’ll shall put in pictures again tomorrow,and explain a little more.
Excuse me,.if you think I say this clearly without nuances,but when Swedish is my native language and not English,it is easier to write without nuances.
Many people here in Sweden have had Top Notch Linn-systems as above,.but switched to Naim.
This because of,.Exact and Space Optimization.
Example: One here in the group,who had an Active Linn Komri with 8 Solo monoblock musik-system,.but switched to an Active DBL-system,this because of what we’re talking about above.
This awful Space Optimization.
He wanted to hear if Space Optimization had gotten any better in the last year.
So he went and listened to an Active Linn Klimax 350 with Space Optimization (Linn’s largest system for those of you who don’t know), at one of Sweden’s most Knowledgeable traders.
After he had listened for a while,.he asked the guy (no name 
) who demonstrated the music-system…
Is It Really Properly Installed.?
The trader replied,…Yes It Is.
After that answer from the trader he said…
•This is absolutely nothing for me,.it just sounds cleaner and clearer,impersonal with no musical soul whatsoever.
My music-system at home,.plays light-years much better than this.
To TiberioMagadino…
Many of us in this “group”,.are known in Sweden to be very knowledgeable in everything related to music-system installation.
We always install our music-systems themselves,.and also help others with their music-system installation.
We have within the group the heaviest systems both within Naim and Linn.
We also have contact with traders from all over the world,.and know that there are very different perceptions of this with Space Optimization.
Many traders don’t want to use it,.and say like I did in my previous post…
Learn how to install your music-system correctly,.according to the acoustic conditions that have always existed.
And,.7 out of 10 on forums in Sweden,.who are skilled at installing their music-systems themselves,do not like Space Optimization.
The musical result will be better without SO,.If you have the knowledge to install your music system optimally,.you can hear it at once.
Why should you have a equalizer in the signal chain…?? 
And TiberioMagadino,.that I would to be dogmatic and not openminded.
I’m probably the opposite 
.
/Peder🙂
Naim do capitalise on their DSP experience with the Naim for Bentley system - the result is the Mu-So.
However, from what I understand, when using DSP it always works best when you try first to optimise everything as best as you can before applying DSP to correct things i.e. it’s not a cure-all by any means and works best when used judiciously. It also helps to know the room as best you can. So I suppose that if Naim could lend you an R&D engineer who can then spend a few weeks programming the room correction DSP in your room, then it might work really well; the experienced human element in the listening and hard programming of the DSP in the Bentley system is key.
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Thanks Richard. I hadn’t realised the Mu-So had this feature. So I guess it is on the drawing board somewhere.
Linn Space Optimisation asks lots of questions about the room and layout so Linn is using an expert system programmed by their R&D experts. So in a way Linn is moving toward artificial intelligence to save its customers needing the onsite R&D expert. The result is superb for me,
To get room treatments absolutely right I think I would need a Naim R&D expert to spend some time in my cottage to advise. I do my best with layout within the constraints of domestic acceptability.
Totally agree. However, this thread has posts that refute this. I used to use SHA256 rather than MD5.
The Mu-So uses lessons learned in the DSP work done on the Naim for Bentley system to give a big hifi system-like sound out of a relatively small box. Apart from differing settings for boundary placement, it does not use any additional room optimisation.
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At a demo recently Justin said the Naim philosophy from Roy George was if a door or window or other room parameter is affecting the sound, then make alterations to overcome the problem. Rather than manipulate the signal to try and improve the situation. Having gone to great lengths to keep the signal as pure as possible to then alter it…just not Naim i guess.
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Indeed - but I think ultimately one has to take some of the views and posts with a pinch of salt, otherwise you could get the impression that some of Naim customer’s would be constantly discovering new laws of physics and observations that challenge many of the established norms in information technology globally of which much of the digital technology used in commerce, governments etc is built on. All possible in the limit - but to my mind extremely unlikely.
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No thats fine and i understand your dilemma, just passing on the story.
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In my last post I should have clarified that my statement about trying to overcome cancellation effects potentially being a rapid path to speaker destruction is unless your amp has a safe overload facility preventing clipping (e.g. automatically applying signal compression).
As for your question, even Linn cannot change basic physics!
If standing waves in the room cause cancellation at a particular point in the room then no matter how you boost the signal it will still cancel. And remember that in trying to eliminate even, say, a relatively modest 12dB dip let alone complete cancellation, the amp has to put out 12dB more: that is 16 times the power whenever full amp output occurs at that frequency. So if you are playing music at a level where peaks use more than 1/16th of the maximum peak power capability of the amp (very likely if playing loud unless you have very efficient speakers or an extremely high power amp), music with peak output at the relevant frequency will cause the amp to go into clipping if it doesn’t have safe overload protection, which is when damage to speakers can be rapid. And if a complete null, you could apply 100x or 1000x the power and still hear nothing! The answer to nulls can only be by changing speaker and/or listening positions, though bass trapping on one of the reflecting walls theoretically would help (theoretically because to be adequate the size of absorbers may be quite unmanageable).
I had never experienced a null before my present room, not in any one of 12 previous rooms, and then suddenly no bass. I could drive the amp to clipping (500w) and still no bass (though the remainder very loud!) The solution was a complete rearrangement of the room, and now fine (although there are places in the room I can stand and certain bass notes almost completely disappear). DSP, whether implemented by Linn or anyone else, cannot resolve a null
As for reflections, if you have reflective side walls close to the speaker, and your speaker radiates sideways to some extent as well as forwards, you hear the direct sound followed a moment later by the same sound again, though reduced in intensity. My understanding is that early reflections in particular are heard as smearing, reducing clarity. And aside from early reflections, too much reflection in the room generally can lead to a long decay time, which can have a muddying effect on the music. Early reflections can be minimised by speaker positioning, and to some extent by speaker angling (toe in/out), or by treatment if the reflecting surface. DSP, even by Linn, cannot alter the reflection of sound waves in the room.
But what DSP can do is reduce peaks and (to a limited extent) troughs, whether caused by the speakers themselves or by interaction with the room, and so can help the sound to be as good as it can be within the physical limitations imposed by the room and speaker/listening positions. I am not knocking DSP - indeed I use it myself, primarily as my active crossover, but also some limited evening out of remaining peaks and troughs after optimising positioning in the room.
My point was that DSP cannot alter what physics is doing in the room, and that you are best off sorting out the room as much as possible first, and only when you have gone as far as possible with that use DSP to finish off.
Some people point to audible adverse effects arising from the use of DSP. The question there is which is the least objectionable, the unintended sound change due to using DSP, or the adverse effects that the DSP is being used to correct…
Thats not what Linn promise in the instructions, you can maybe improve a bad situation but not make it go away.
Now Linn has been smart enough to limit Space Optimization to only work below 80Hz so it is really one of the best solutions if you need that kind of help. It leaves the midrange alone.
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When reading Linns documentation. They dont talk about boosting anything.
Perhaps if you read further they describe boosting. But on the first page you can read this:
“Space Optimisation takes account of the characteristics of your speakers, such as the position of each drive unit and the response of bass reflex ports, and of the characteristics of your room, such as room dimensions, construction materials, and features like doors and windows, to accurately model these interactions. It then precisely identifies frequencies that are artificially distorted by your environment, and reduces their energy and decay time, to reveal the music that would otherwise be hidden. It also applies a delay to each speaker to ensure the content from each speaker reaches your ears at the same time.”
Also note the first and most important requirement for Space Opimization. The speakers should first be optimally installed “using tunedem”.
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