Kudos titan 707

Hi Hawkmoon, the 707s could easily be the least forgiving of the Kudos range, when it comes to excessive bass ie room response. 505s the most forgiving :+1:t3: ATB Peter

It’s not ideal that one of the speakers sits in front of a window and another in front of a wall, these materials behave differently so it could cause some out of phase resonances. Together with the ceiling this creates a challenging room to get completely right in terms of acoustics.

If you have the opportunity, it might be an idea to bring in an expert to do some measurements. They could help you identify the problem spots and give advice about the best approach to fix them (either by placement, treatment or perhaps even a room correction DSP).

Great room visually though!

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Sorry litemotiv, but glass has the same absorption coefficient as a drylined wall - about 10%, in other words I personally wouldn’t worry and haven’t in my own set up.:+1:t3: ATB Peter

Your setup is symmetric and has extra treatment (curtains, panels and carpet), so that will influence things i assume…

I don’t know what kind of glass is used in the other room or how many layers, and the type of isolation that is in the concrete (or wooden?) wall. But generally speaking, you want the setup to be as symmetric as possible in terms of resonances otherwise you can end up boosting or attenuating certain frequencies.

Couldn’t agree more! :+1:t3: ATB Peter
Also being sat only 3 feet from my back wall I have applied a considerable amount of absorption, which also helps with the mad old game.

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I will try demo a pair at home when possible. :+1:

But according to Dennis Foley glass gives its own [poor] sound signature , and with my own experience i would have to agree with him.

The room being discussed looks very nice , but poor for quality sound reproduction. Lots of glass , no treatment , tv between the speakers. I guess you could treat it with good results but its sure going to change its looks , unacceptably for most people i would think.

Do you say that positioning speakers in front of windows or in front of a wall give the same sounding results?
I thought that windows would vibrate more easily if the speakers are near them.

My room is similar but with a lower flat ceiling, the right hand side of my room is mostly window, TV between the speakers and a large glass mirror on the opposite side to the window along with more glass doors opposite the speakers.

Both the 707’s and now 808’s had no noticeable issues to my ears and I tend to play quite loud.

I do however have ceiling to floor curtains, in the evenings it does make a difference for the better but not enough to want me to close them in the day time.

You also have a good distance on either side of your speakers which will help. The 707’s can also work well relatively close together, so good to experiment if you can dem them, they are perfect partners with the 300

Not any wall, but plaster board (often called drywall) has remarkably similar reflection properties as glass. Drywall vibrates, too. There is some website with measurements.

As you know I have lots of glass as well, and I don’t find it terrible. However my speaker guy recommended to stick self-adhesive rubber pads into the corners of the window panes to dampen the vibration. I’ll try. (Similar stickers are available from hifi snake oil companies for a lot more money, but then they come with a leaflet talking the usual BS about crystal this and quantum that. However, the basic dampening idea supposedly works)

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Can you post a picture of the self adhesive rubber pads for corners windows, please?
Are they the same that protect against heat departure?

Like that?
image

I have only seen the snake oil ones, they were transparent soft plastic with a bit of crystal looking moulding to justify the BS and the price :wink: I believe the ones recommended by speaker-Stefan are going to be black square rubber 4 by 4 cm and maybe 0.5 cm thick. Will post pics and brand when I know more and have tried the effect. Should only be one or two more weeks :slight_smile:

@frenchrooster, an update:

So I found the snake oil variant again. The website is biophotone-audio dot com but only in German. Go to “Unsere Produkte” (our products) in the menu at the top and search for “BP-107/108/109: MA Window Clean Pyramids”, there is a PDF there.

I DO NOT endorse this, the website is like snake oil heaven for gullible hifi enthusiasts. But the story is this:

I know a guy who is a very knowledgeable hifi freak (owned 500 once) and a very enthusiastic tinkerer who seems to have tried everything, but kept his head on. We chatted about my room and the large windows and he said I’d have to try these Biophotone pyramids, he’s using them too and thinks they really help - not because of the BS they are spreading on the website and in the PDF, but simply because dampening the resonance of the window panes helps, whichever way. I declined on the basis that if I stick these plastic “crystals” into my window corners, I’d have to explain it to every visitor and would look like a nut :slight_smile:

So, as you may remember, I believe that my (large) room is pretty good with some weaknesses. Bass is IMHO great with no obvious issues, but I know it’s pretty bright because although I took care with some rugs, etc., it has the windows and generally “modern” furniture and so on. So that’s what I told speaker-Stefan before his visit with the demo speakers. (You may remember that he offers treatment advice on top of his speaker setup service & measuring). He seemed skeptical, I guess that’s what most people tell him.

So he came over with the speakers and after some listening he agreed and was happy with the room, in particular the bass. And because the speakers will be adjusted for the room, this takes care of the brightness. However, he pointed out that there’s a resonant frequency in the window panes that impresses itself on the music. I didn’t know what he meant, so he started knocking on the window panes, and indeed (of course!) the knocking made a sound with a quite specific frequency. I have 10 window panes and each is the same size, so it’s the same sound for every pane. After this was pointed out to me, I could not unhear it anymore - this resonance emphasizes the same frequency whatever the music.

So he recommended these rubber sticker things, and when I heard this, I immediately remembered the Biophotone “crystals” - it’s the same idea without the BS about crystals and whatnot; simply some dampening for the resonant frequency of the window panes.

Can’t comment yet on the effect, but the fact that two trustworthy guys came up with the same recommendation may mean something, and it makes intuitive sense. I’ll try it soon when my speakers are delivered, a week or two.

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I’ve noticed this argument bandied around here before, but it never seemed entirely plausible to me. Plasterboard is typically nailed or screwed to timber studs which are quite closely spaced, whereas a large sheet of glass will be supported only at its edges, such that the whole sheet can flex when vibrations hit it. I’m certainly no expert in this stuff, but I can’t imagine the two materials would behave in the same way when the installation is so different.
Right….now I’m off to brick up my windows and turn the listening room into some sort of bat cave :woozy_face:

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I’m sure there are many variables. In many new buildings over here, or where old ones are renovated, the plasterboard is typically mounted to aluminium struts that are quite widely spaced - I’ve had to detect them when drilling holes. Window sizes also differ between homes - I have lots of windowed area but the panes are quite narrow, for instance.

Anyways, there is a website somewhere with measurements comparing this, but I can’t actually recall how well it was done and if it addressed these variables.

Another thing is that it differs for different frequencies. I think the argument here is about the highs, where intuitively I’d expect the small-scale surface having more of an influence than the mounting. For bass, both plasterboard and windows will swing and eat energy, and the details will among other construction details also depend on the sizes between supports, as you say. (This energy absorption may or may not be a good thing in a given room)

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